Mortician (Neutral Chaos) [EDITED]

[alex1234321]

I didn't think about this. If a Mortician doesn't get any kills off in Ranked or some other balanced mode before all the Townies die, it probably doesn't deserve to win. But I don't like the idea of making it suicide and automatically lose in a situation like the one that you described. It would make sense to turn it into an Executioner, but that wouldn't work since all the Townies are dead. Maybe make it a Jester since that's what Executioner becomes? Jester is a bad role and its alignment would be messed up, but that shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Yeah, Jester doesn't seem like the way to go. I think the resolution to this is to make it easier for the Mortician to transform. So either 1) allow the Mortician to transform based on a wider variety of lynches - say, anyone who isn't part of an informed minority - or 2) give the Mortician its transform if the last Townie dies. Could also go with something in-between, i.e. "if every Town is dead, the Mortician loses half his targeting power, but can transform off of any role being lynched".

I made Mortician only transform for mislynches to prevent it from distorting incentives by punishing Townies for lynching scum. Also with your first idea there could still be rare situations where it is down to just informed minorities. Your second idea seems like a better solution, but I'm not sure if it's necessary to add potentially confusing mechanics for a situation that would rarely occur. But I think only allowing it to mark one person per night in those situations isn't too bad if there aren't any better solutions.

Edit: Now that I think about it, maybe Mortician should automatically lose if all Townies die. Usually this would either happen in an endgame situation or chaos modes. It deserves to lose if it can't lynch anyone by the endgame and in chaos modes there's always a chance that you automatically lose early on, particularly as a Neutral role. But it could be fun to play chaotic setups with a Mortician and few to no Town members. Is this worth adding extra mechanics for?

[Parallax7]

Here’s a fun concept, that I think can be improved a bit.

Mortician

Neutral Chaos

Ability:
— Dig one or two players’ grave(s) each night.

Attributes:
— If a player you buried is killed that night, or lynched the following day, become Death.

Death

Abilities:
— Choose one player to kill each night.
— Choose a player who was unsuccessfully buried to kill as well.

Attributes:
— Your burial kills are basic.
— Your normal kills are powerful.
— Your burial kills cannot be witnessed. [E.G, Lookout, Tracker, etc... Will not see this action.]
— Burials and normal kills will be identical. “They were buried alive.”

Stats:
Defense: Basic

[alex1234321]

I created a poll. If one version is substantially more popular than the other, I will go ahead and submit that version to the TG. Otherwise, I plan on keeping my and Cap's version and possibly spinning Parallax's into a new role. Here is my assessment of each version:

The original purpose of the role is to effectively act like a TP for lynches. While this might be a bad idea to have in 9v6 games where one mislynch can be fatal to Town, it would be much more balanced in 10v5 games where either team can make a mistake and still win. It would be very difficult to fulfill this purpose as a Town role due to confirmability. A Mafia or NE role would not work either because the role has to somehow punish Mafia for trying to lynch the wrong person. This leaves an NK/NC as the only viable alignment for a role like this. Every other feature of Mortician has been calibrated to make the role fit this purpose while still being balanced. The biggest downside of the role right now is that it could be nearly impossible to lynch a marked player without getting caught, especially as a role that is more threatening than Executioner. However, up to four players can trigger Mortician's transformation, so in many situations it might not have to act like an Executioner. If this is still a problem, the targets can be made permanent and the killing mechanism can be changed if necessary.

Parallax's version is more like a standard NC role if such a thing exists. Compared to the OP, Parallax's version transforms slightly more easily but has a slightly weaker death ability. It does not have to push for mislynches and instead predicts deaths like an FM Bomber. After transforming into death, it gets up to 2 KPN. The Astral burial kills make it harder for a TI to catch death. This version of Mortician has multiple potential strategies. It can try to transform early on, which would effectively make it into a slightly stronger Serial Killer. It can also wait longer, which would allow it to end the game quickly after transforming. Right now, I think it is too easy to win by waiting a long time, but the killing mechanism can be modified to fix this.

I think the biggest difference between the two roles is what happens before transforming into Death. The OP role requires mislynches while Parallax's role just needs one of its targets to die. As a result, the original version causes the Mafia to be more cautious in their day play with the potential drawback of often getting caught directly after transforming.

Since both roles are very flexible in terms of balance, I think everyone should vote based on whether or not they like the concept of a role that protects against mislynches. Do you think this adds an important dimension to Mafia day play, or does it punish the Mafia for doing something that should be encouraged?

[Brilliand]

I don't want to move Mortician away from its origins as an Executioner variant. I do like several of the changes that Parallax made, but the part where Parallax's Mortician can transform based on a night kill changes the role's purpose too much.

I disagree that Mortician should be thought of as a "TP for lynches", though; it does nothing to prevent the lynch, it just punishes everyone after the lynch takes place.

[alex1234321]

I don't want to move Mortician away from its origins as an Executioner variant. I do like several of the changes that Parallax made, but the part where Parallax's Mortician can transform based on a night kill changes the role's purpose too much.

I disagree that Mortician should be thought of as a "TP for lynches", though; it does nothing to prevent the lynch, it just punishes everyone after the lynch takes place.

Which of Parallax's changes do you like? Do you think they can be incorporated into the original role?

Mortician is about as much of a TP for mislynches as Lookout is a TP. Even though neither role does anything to stop a kill from happening, both roles discourage scum from playing a certain way. In games where Lookout can roll, scum are more cautious toward targeting important Town members. In games where Mortician can role, Mafia/Coven members in particular would be less willing to support someone who makes a bad scumread or false accusation.

[alex1234321]

I added investigative results and achievements for both roles. If ten people vote in the poll, I will write a lore!

[alex1234321]

I edited the role based on the changes voted on by the TG balancers.

[alex1234321]

I have edited Mortician to make it less complicated and decrease the number of targets the player needs each night. Hopefully this version makes it into the TG!