Soulshade55r wrote:I don't think it's the best way of "changing" a more simple system would eliminate promotion all together.
Generally you can implement it similar to how the sk "cautious" button works.
Where lets say your Consigilere, decides to kill tonight, they would just press the button then it would give them the TMK, making who they target ded instead of investigating them.
If multiple mafia try to kill their could be a priority system, personally first who presses the button should gain the Killing action would work best, It would also give out a message to everyone, maybe you can only press it a certain amount of times to avoid spamming, but it would say something along the lines "Player C, Has taken up arms". Action would result in a failure if the second player tried to kill (lets say player b also tried to kill but did i later then player c, they would just take no action or giving a message that they cannot select a kill target while Player C is attempting to kill"
The only problems I can see is griefing or throwing, which is already something the Godfather can do, at least if a mafioso goes afk or are making bad kills instead now you actually have a chance of making the shots, so it's a double edge sword, I also don't think we should be balacing around awful players but I know it would be a concern regardless.
Godfather/Mafioso would need a total rework, I believe Godfather should generally be entirely reworked, I dislike how the role just functions as a weird sheriff counter thats night immune, other then that it counters role blocks aslong as the mafioso exists, the role needs a change, Mafioso can become a Mafia action replicator and "maf Amne".
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:I don't think it's the best way of "changing" a more simple system would eliminate promotion all together.
Generally you can implement it similar to how the sk "cautious" button works.
Where lets say your Consigilere, decides to kill tonight, they would just press the button then it would give them the TMK, making who they target ded instead of investigating them.
If multiple mafia try to kill their could be a priority system, personally first who presses the button should gain the Killing action would work best, It would also give out a message to everyone, maybe you can only press it a certain amount of times to avoid spamming, but it would say something along the lines "Player C, Has taken up arms". Action would result in a failure if the second player tried to kill (lets say player b also tried to kill but did i later then player c, they would just take no action or giving a message that they cannot select a kill target while Player C is attempting to kill"
The only problems I can see is griefing or throwing, which is already something the Godfather can do, at least if a mafioso goes afk or are making bad kills instead now you actually have a chance of making the shots, so it's a double edge sword, I also don't think we should be balacing around awful players but I know it would be a concern regardless.
Godfather/Mafioso would need a total rework, I believe Godfather should generally be entirely reworked, I dislike how the role just functions as a weird sheriff counter thats night immune, other then that it counters role blocks aslong as the mafioso exists, the role needs a change, Mafioso can become a Mafia action replicator and "maf Amne".
This version skips all the work of having to rework GF and mafioso entirely, and tbh I dont see a problem with GF, it is a standard in almost all games to have a mafia role with some immunities
Also I am 90% sure the mafioso becoming a mafia amne/whatever was tested and it didnt work
MysticMismagius wrote:Godfather not being detection immune would be kinda weird imo since that's like
The thing that defines Godfather in most classic Mafia games
Also it doesn't need the nerf
As far as giving Mafioso special abilities I've always been partial to giving it a special perk to its kill that no other Mafia member would get (e.g. making Mafioso kills Ninja/Astral, Powerful, or RB immune)
Just because Mafioso has always been defined by performing the Mafia kill in ToS and thus it should be the best at killing in a world where it is no longer quasi-required to do so
I'd be fine with that, not like it'd be the first Mafia role with limited-shot abilitiesSoulshade55r wrote:I think maybe giving Mafioso one or two kills is fine, that bypass certain things like being a ninja, it having it constantly makes it pretty bad and a weird nerf to Tracker/LO/EscortsMysticMismagius wrote:Godfather not being detection immune would be kinda weird imo since that's like
The thing that defines Godfather in most classic Mafia games
Also it doesn't need the nerf
As far as giving Mafioso special abilities I've always been partial to giving it a special perk to its kill that no other Mafia member would get (e.g. making Mafioso kills Ninja/Astral, Powerful, or RB immune)
Just because Mafioso has always been defined by performing the Mafia kill in ToS and thus it should be the best at killing in a world where it is no longer quasi-required to do so
Fair enoughSoulshade55r wrote:I've always disliked how "Godfather" works, being immune to Sheriff? Like why is that a gimmick, he's not immune to other investigative roles? Whats the point of screwing over Sheriff? Seriously though, I feel like roles such as Disguiser do the whole hiding gimmick better...
Disguiser is the one Mafia role that isn't completely thrashed by Spy because it makes them ignore the visits of the chosen Mafia memberSoulshade55r wrote:(just please for the love of god rework Spy, its so dumb and ruins Disguiser from being a hider role).
Soulshade55r wrote:I don't think it's the best way of "changing" a more simple system would eliminate promotion all together.
Generally you can implement it similar to how the sk "cautious" button works.
Where lets say your Consigilere, decides to kill tonight, they would just press the button then it would give them the TMK, making who they target ded instead of investigating them.
If multiple mafia try to kill their could be a priority system, personally first who presses the button should gain the Killing action would work best, It would also give out a message to everyone, maybe you can only press it a certain amount of times to avoid spamming, but it would say something along the lines "Player C, Has taken up arms". Action would result in a failure if the second player tried to kill (lets say player b also tried to kill but did i later then player c, they would just take no action or giving a message that they cannot select a kill target while Player C is attempting to kill"
The only problems I can see is griefing or throwing, which is already something the Godfather can do, at least if a mafioso goes afk or are making bad kills instead now you actually have a chance of making the shots, so it's a double edge sword, I also don't think we should be balacing around awful players but I know it would be a concern regardless.
Godfather/Mafioso would need a total rework, I believe Godfather should generally be entirely reworked, I dislike how the role just functions as a weird sheriff counter thats night immune, other then that it counters role blocks aslong as the mafioso exists, the role needs a change, Mafioso can become a Mafia action replicator and "maf Amne".
MysticMismagius wrote:I'd be fine with that, not like it'd be the first Mafia role with limited-shot abilitiesSoulshade55r wrote:I think maybe giving Mafioso one or two kills is fine, that bypass certain things like being a ninja, it having it constantly makes it pretty bad and a weird nerf to Tracker/LO/EscortsMysticMismagius wrote:Godfather not being detection immune would be kinda weird imo since that's like
The thing that defines Godfather in most classic Mafia games
Also it doesn't need the nerf
As far as giving Mafioso special abilities I've always been partial to giving it a special perk to its kill that no other Mafia member would get (e.g. making Mafioso kills Ninja/Astral, Powerful, or RB immune)
Just because Mafioso has always been defined by performing the Mafia kill in ToS and thus it should be the best at killing in a world where it is no longer quasi-required to do soFair enoughSoulshade55r wrote:I've always disliked how "Godfather" works, being immune to Sheriff? Like why is that a gimmick, he's not immune to other investigative roles? Whats the point of screwing over Sheriff? Seriously though, I feel like roles such as Disguiser do the whole hiding gimmick better...
Framer is also reviled for affecting only some TI and not others
I just think making GF ping sus to Sheriff isn't super necessary
There's bigger fish to fryDisguiser is the one Mafia role that isn't completely thrashed by Spy because it makes them ignore the visits of the chosen Mafia memberSoulshade55r wrote:(just please for the love of god rework Spy, its so dumb and ruins Disguiser from being a hider role).
(unless that Mafia member is disguised as a Coven member in which case it will make the visit look like it came from Coven, which is also useful)
But rework Spy anyway because it's OPAF
LordDrakyle wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:I don't think it's the best way of "changing" a more simple system would eliminate promotion all together.
Generally you can implement it similar to how the sk "cautious" button works.
Where lets say your Consigilere, decides to kill tonight, they would just press the button then it would give them the TMK, making who they target ded instead of investigating them.
If multiple mafia try to kill their could be a priority system, personally first who presses the button should gain the Killing action would work best, It would also give out a message to everyone, maybe you can only press it a certain amount of times to avoid spamming, but it would say something along the lines "Player C, Has taken up arms". Action would result in a failure if the second player tried to kill (lets say player b also tried to kill but did i later then player c, they would just take no action or giving a message that they cannot select a kill target while Player C is attempting to kill"
The only problems I can see is griefing or throwing, which is already something the Godfather can do, at least if a mafioso goes afk or are making bad kills instead now you actually have a chance of making the shots, so it's a double edge sword, I also don't think we should be balacing around awful players but I know it would be a concern regardless.
Godfather/Mafioso would need a total rework, I believe Godfather should generally be entirely reworked, I dislike how the role just functions as a weird sheriff counter thats night immune, other then that it counters role blocks aslong as the mafioso exists, the role needs a change, Mafioso can become a Mafia action replicator and "maf Amne".
Regarding the issue of a griefer, why not a similar function to how the Vampires handle it where it's voted on collectively who to target? That way even if Mafioso/GF are afk the team can still vote who they want dead and see it done
MysticMismagius wrote:Disguiser is the one Mafia role that isn't completely thrashed by Spy because it makes them ignore the visits of the chosen Mafia memberSoulshade55r wrote:(just please for the love of god rework Spy, its so dumb and ruins Disguiser from being a hider role).
(unless that Mafia member is disguised as a Coven member in which case it will make the visit look like it came from Coven, which is also useful)
But rework Spy anyway because it's OPAF
WaveAqualei wrote:MysticMismagius wrote:Disguiser is the one Mafia role that isn't completely thrashed by Spy because it makes them ignore the visits of the chosen Mafia memberSoulshade55r wrote:(just please for the love of god rework Spy, its so dumb and ruins Disguiser from being a hider role).
(unless that Mafia member is disguised as a Coven member in which case it will make the visit look like it came from Coven, which is also useful)
But rework Spy anyway because it's OPAF
I'd argue that Jani is also not countered by Spy.
WaveAqualei wrote:The rolelist indirectly nerfs Jani, but Spy doesn't counter it.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:WaveAqualei wrote:The rolelist indirectly nerfs Jani, but Spy doesn't counter it.
It does, since jani confirms the RM slot spy can tell much easier who is MS
No visit: bmer or MS rbed/jailed
Silent visit: consig
Roleblocked: consort
Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:WaveAqualei wrote:The rolelist indirectly nerfs Jani, but Spy doesn't counter it.
It does, since jani confirms the RM slot spy can tell much easier who is MS
No visit: bmer or MS rbed/jailed
Silent visit: consig
Roleblocked: consort
yeah but like the knowing the RM mafia roles only really matters to investigators, of course theirs some importance knowing if theirs a consort and some other mafia roles, either way Janitor is still fine, I'd argue it's actually still pretty good and wouldn't need changing, same goes to forger (which is less known then Jani but can be easily found out).
A forced MS isn't a good idea generally because it's a way of BMG knowing that Mafia deception is weaker but instead of actually fixing MD roles they rather make one forced MS because MS is better, obviously TMK and not having a forced mafioso/godfather would actually fix a lot of this also reworking spy, but yeah I doubt that, a lot of my hopes at this point for the game have completely died out considering how rushed this ranked season was put on.
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:WaveAqualei wrote:The rolelist indirectly nerfs Jani, but Spy doesn't counter it.
It does, since jani confirms the RM slot spy can tell much easier who is MS
No visit: bmer or MS rbed/jailed
Silent visit: consig
Roleblocked: consort
yeah but like the knowing the RM mafia roles only really matters to investigators, of course theirs some importance knowing if theirs a consort and some other mafia roles, either way Janitor is still fine, I'd argue it's actually still pretty good and wouldn't need changing, same goes to forger (which is less known then Jani but can be easily found out).
A forced MS isn't a good idea generally because it's a way of BMG knowing that Mafia deception is weaker but instead of actually fixing MD roles they rather make one forced MS because MS is better, obviously TMK and not having a forced mafioso/godfather would actually fix a lot of this also reworking spy, but yeah I doubt that, a lot of my hopes at this point for the game have completely died out considering how rushed this ranked season was put on.
No, town being unaware of what are RMs opens a lot of posibilities like claiming framed, saying that someone was forged, pretending to be bmed, etc
Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Soulshade55r wrote:syjfwbaobfwl wrote:WaveAqualei wrote:The rolelist indirectly nerfs Jani, but Spy doesn't counter it.
It does, since jani confirms the RM slot spy can tell much easier who is MS
No visit: bmer or MS rbed/jailed
Silent visit: consig
Roleblocked: consort
yeah but like the knowing the RM mafia roles only really matters to investigators, of course theirs some importance knowing if theirs a consort and some other mafia roles, either way Janitor is still fine, I'd argue it's actually still pretty good and wouldn't need changing, same goes to forger (which is less known then Jani but can be easily found out).
A forced MS isn't a good idea generally because it's a way of BMG knowing that Mafia deception is weaker but instead of actually fixing MD roles they rather make one forced MS because MS is better, obviously TMK and not having a forced mafioso/godfather would actually fix a lot of this also reworking spy, but yeah I doubt that, a lot of my hopes at this point for the game have completely died out considering how rushed this ranked season was put on.
No, town being unaware of what are RMs opens a lot of posibilities like claiming framed, saying that someone was forged, pretending to be bmed, etc
claiming framed is also nerfed by spies existence, pretending to be bm'd is nerfed by spies existence, It doesn't matter that much.
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