Life Trader (Mafia Support)

[Brilliand]

We should have killed that other guy instead...

Role Name: Life Trader

Role Alignment: Mafia Support

Special Attributes:

• Unique

Attack: Unstoppable
Defense: None

Abilities: Resurrect a dead Town-aligned player, and kill another player in exchange.

Attributes:

• You may only perform 2 life trades.
• If there are no kill-capable Mafia roles left you will become a Mafioso.
• You can talk with the other Mafia at night.

Goal: Kill anyone that will not submit to the Mafia.

Additional Info:
The resurrection works exactly like the old Retributionist.
The kill works like a Jester haunt (astral, unstoppable, and can't be redirected by a Transporter).
Controlling the Life Trader roleblocks him.

----

I had this crazy idea, and just decided to throw it out there.

It's probably not very useful for the Mafia overall, but it does have the following upsides:

• It wrecks the Jailor meta, by reliably exchanging the Jailor for whichever townie died N1. Is it worth it to confirm a random townie plus any Mediums in exchange for having the Jailor dead? Not sure!
• It can punch through the defense of competing evil roles in All Any, provided the Mafia can find a few townies to resurrect in exchange.
• It can tear down TP chains, by exchanging the TPs for roles that can't protect.

It also has thematic problems (raising the dead feels more like a Coven thing than a Mafia thing), but oh well.

Arguably it should be in Mafia Killing because it can technically kill, but on the other hand it can never produce a net gain in KPN (only move kills from one target to another), hence the Mafia Support designation.

[CapWarrior2]

First question: What priority?
Second question: Wouldn't this role just not do their abilty?
I do like the idea very much, like a 1 for 1 but my second question sort of is the main question to ask.

[Brilliand]

First question: What priority?

Kill priority, I would think - priority 5.

Second question: Wouldn't this role just not do their abilty?

Yes probably, most of the time... but I keep thinking of niche situations where it could save the Mafia from being pinned down.

[CapWarrior2]

Priority should be 1 highest, Jester is 1 highest which means this should be, which bypasses control, rb. Definently more of a unique idea tho

[superdog551]

I like it! I don't know how useful it would be in practice but the concept is fun. Does it only have one use? If not, it should

[CapWarrior2]

I like it! I don't know how useful it would be in practice but the concept is fun. Does it only have one use? If not, it should

I would assume 1 charge or else that's dumb

[Brilliand]

Priority should be 1 highest, Jester is 1 highest which means this should be, which bypasses control, rb. Definently more of a unique idea tho

Is Jester priority 1? I don't think that's confirmed. It doesn't necessarily have roleblock or control immunity, because being dead makes it impossible to roleblock or control anyway.

Anyway, the Life Trader definitely doesn't have roleblock or control immunity; only Astral, Unstoppable and Transporter Bypass. You don't need high priority to have those.

I like it! I don't know how useful it would be in practice but the concept is fun. Does it only have one use? If not, it should

I would assume 1 charge or else that's dumb

Unlimited uses. Why would that be a problem? The price (resurrecting a townie) is high enough to limit its usefulness without having to make it X-shot.

[deadlyblack]

I would assume 1 charge or else that's dumb

Unlimited uses. Why would that be a problem? The price (resurrecting a townie) is high enough to limit its usefulness without having to make it X-shot.

This role should definitely have only one charge, an unstoppable attack that is unlimited for a mafia role?
Even if the price is resurrecting a townie, the benefits outway the price.

[cob709]

I would assume 1 charge or else that's dumb

Unlimited uses. Why would that be a problem? The price (resurrecting a townie) is high enough to limit its usefulness without having to make it X-shot.

This role should definitely have only one charge, an unstoppable attack that is unlimited for a mafia role?
Even if the price is resurrecting a townie, the benefits outway the price.

1 for 1

[lemonader666]

I would assume 1 charge or else that's dumb

Unlimited uses. Why would that be a problem? The price (resurrecting a townie) is high enough to limit its usefulness without having to make it X-shot.

This role should definitely have only one charge, an unstoppable attack that is unlimited for a mafia role?
Even if the price is resurrecting a townie, the benefits outway the price.

1 for 1

Actually, it's not exactly 1 for 1.
*The killed TI townie will have their results at best delayed
*The kill bypasses all immunities and protections, making this role basically a more convoluted strongman
*The resurrected townie can bring dead chat info
*Jailor meta would be destroyed
*The resurrect confirms the resurrected player, but the kill would likely be on a confirmed townie anyway
*Unlimited shots
Would-I-Want-This-Role-On-My-Team-O-Meter: HELL YES IT'S AN UNLIMITED SHOT STRONGMAN LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[cookies4you]

A role who is completely reliant on dead people not being AFK just to function is terribly designed.

This is a role whose very existence encourages dead people to leave the game and becomes useless when they do. There are so many problems and gameplay implications here that it's not even funny.

We should be getting rid of dead interaction, not expanding on it.

[CapWarrior2]

Priority should be 1 highest, Jester is 1 highest which means this should be, which bypasses control, rb. Definently more of a unique idea tho

Is Jester priority 1? I don't think that's confirmed. It is look at fandom It doesn't necessarily have roleblock or control immunity, because being dead makes it impossible to roleblock or control anyway.

Anyway, the Life Trader definitely doesn't have roleblock or control immunity; only Astral, Unstoppable and Transporter Bypass. You don't need high priority to have those. For it to bypass transports then it needs to have a priority of 1 highest, then the role still can be further then classified as not Control and Roleblock immune.

I like it! I don't know how useful it would be in practice but the concept is fun. Does it only have one use? If not, it should

I would assume 1 charge or else that's dumb

Unlimited uses. Why would that be a problem? The price (resurrecting a townie) is high enough to limit its usefulness without having to make it X-shot. I see what you mean, I would rather ressurect 3 mediums and then have no Arso,WW,Sk in my game. But having unstoppable attacks is only accessed by 5 roles for a reason. 1 by the strongest town role, 1 by a townie that kills himself when using it, 3 neutrals, 1 when being hung (1 time use) 1 when deciding to kill everyone and the last one being earned to bypass protections. All the Unstoppable attack is for is to bypass Protections, No role in the game has Powerful defence in the first place, it is just only the roles that given Powerful defence that have it.

Priorities with 1 and 2 have a normal and highest. Escort and Consort consist of 2 highest, this doesn't mean people with priority 1 are always rb immune.

Also of the target was forged to a Town role from an evil role, the Life Trader should still be able to attempt to life swap them, but instead coming up with a failed message, as your target was to pure or something.

I feel it definently should only have Powerful attack. That way their is atleast some counter to it other then to control or rb it.

If it was to be unstoppable then put a cap on the amount of swaps you can do to I feel max of 2.

[OreCreeper]

Can't you just like, kill a sheriff and exchange a revealed mayor, then kill that sheriff again and exchange it with the jailor, and so on...

[Brilliand]

I feel it definently should only have Powerful attack. That way their is atleast some counter to it other then to control or rb it.

Maybe, but I really am worried about making it useless. If it can't bypass Doctors, what's the point? (And letting Transporters redirect it into killing a Maf in exchange for reviving a Town would be even worse.)

If it was to be unstoppable then put a cap on the amount of swaps you can do to I feel max of 2.

Eh, this would be OK - I've been imagining it wouldn't want to act more than twice in a game anyway. Alright, I'll edit it to a max of 2.

Changelog:
+ You may only perform 2 life trades.

Can't you just like, kill a sheriff and exchange a revealed mayor, then kill that sheriff again and exchange it with the jailor, and so on...

At the cost of feeding the Town info from dead chat, sure. Oh, and the TP might decide to go on the revived sheriff... that could be bad.

[lemonader666]

So now it's just a more convoluted strongman. Why not jist make it an actual strongman then?

[OreCreeper]

Can't you just like, kill a sheriff and exchange a revealed mayor, then kill that sheriff again and exchange it with the jailor, and so on...

At the cost of feeding the Town info from dead chat, sure. Oh, and the TP might decide to go on the revived sheriff... that could be bad.

Clearly not a huge cost... because if it was, medium wouldn't be considered one of the weakest town roles in the game... true that the TP might go on the revived sheriff though.

[Brilliand]

At the cost of feeding the Town info from dead chat, sure. Oh, and the TP might decide to go on the revived sheriff... that could be bad.

Clearly not a huge cost... because if it was, medium wouldn't be considered one of the weakest town roles in the game... true that the TP might go on the revived sheriff though.

Hard confirming all Mediums is part of "the cost of feeding the Town info from dead chat".

Even now, Medium is overpowered in groups - it's only the lone Medium that's extremely weak.

[CapWarrior2]

Even now, Medium is overpowered in groups - it's only the lone Medium that's extremely weak.

Confirming a medium by itself is weak but the role by itself is extremely powerful.

[Soulshade55r]

Personally I want Dead interaction gone from the game, This includes a medium rework.

[RiceHatMan]

Personally I want Dead interaction gone from the game, This includes a medium rework.

Idk what's the whole thing about disliking or liking dead interaction. For me, I would much rather there to be more interaction, since I mainly play ranked. Also, being dead is an faulty of the game, and it can't be simply covered up by removing all dead interaction, as this blocks certain aspects of the game from being implemented (such as this role idea). All games should be fun regardless if you die n1 or live to the end of the game.

[lemonader666]

Personally I want Dead interaction gone from the game, This includes a medium rework.

Idk what's the whole thing about disliking or liking dead interaction. For me, I would much rather there to be more interaction, since I mainly play ranked. Also, being dead is an faulty of the game, and it can't be simply covered up by removing all dead interaction, as this blocks certain aspects of the game from being implemented (such as this role idea). All games should be fun regardless if you die n1 or live to the end of the game.

How often do people stay in the game after they've died

[cob709]

Personally I want Dead interaction gone from the game, This includes a medium rework.

Idk what's the whole thing about disliking or liking dead interaction. For me, I would much rather there to be more interaction, since I mainly play ranked. Also, being dead is an faulty of the game, and it can't be simply covered up by removing all dead interaction, as this blocks certain aspects of the game from being implemented (such as this role idea). All games should be fun regardless if you die n1 or live to the end of the game.

How often do people stay in the game after they've died

I've rarely seen anyone leave games because they'll lose like, the maximum amount of ELO.

[cookies4you]

Personally I want Dead interaction gone from the game, This includes a medium rework.

Idk what's the whole thing about disliking or liking dead interaction. For me, I would much rather there to be more interaction, since I mainly play ranked. Also, being dead is an faulty of the game, and it can't be simply covered up by removing all dead interaction, as this blocks certain aspects of the game from being implemented (such as this role idea). All games should be fun regardless if you die n1 or live to the end of the game.

"Fun" isn't a good excuse for just how severely dead interaction breaks this game.

Medium removes the Mafia's ability to silence TIs and invalidates Ambushers, Forgers, and Janitors just by existing. Rule-breaking on its own isn't even a bad thing. Mayor and Blackmailer have rule-breaking abilities, but their effects are consistent and clearly telegraphed. Medium is none of that.

Unlike every other role in this game, the effectiveness of Medium's ability is directly tied to the RNG of who joined the lobby instead of any actions it can take. It is simultaneously the strongest TI and the most useless role in the game with no control over which direction it will swing. Even Ambusher has better control over its RNG than Medium does, and its ability a literal dice roll.

Also unlike every other role in this game, Medium has zero interaction with in-game mechanics. It gathers information by meta-gaming. It shares information by meta-gaming. It counters Mafia by meta-gaming. It confirms itself by meta-gaming. It confirms other Mediums by meta-gaming. It disproves fake Mediums by meta-gaming. It is so reliant on meta-gaming to function that a Janitor could replicate Medium's entire kit by Skyping someone in the lobby and no one alive, not even other Mediums, would know the difference.

Everything that Medium is just embodies the scummiest kind of gameplay. You might as well start encouraging people to read their role cards on trial. Then you could create an entirely new role whose sole ability is opening the Town of Salem wiki and proofreading their text.

[Brilliand]

Yeah, the "no dead interaction" argument is one I sympathize strongly with. This role was fun to brainstorm, but I agree that it shouldn't actually be added to the game.

Idk what's the whole thing about disliking or liking dead interaction. For me, I would much rather there to be more interaction, since I mainly play ranked.

Ranked is kind of a weird case because there's that ELO penalty for leaving. It needs to either have dead interaction, or not have any kind of penalty for leaving while dead.

This role would do essentially nothing to solve that problem with Ranked, though, because the dead interaction that it provides is too sporadic (even moreso than the old Retributionist, because the Mafia controls when it happens).

[Soulshade55r]

Personally I want Dead interaction gone from the game, This includes a medium rework.

Idk what's the whole thing about disliking or liking dead interaction. For me, I would much rather there to be more interaction, since I mainly play ranked. Also, being dead is an faulty of the game, and it can't be simply covered up by removing all dead interaction, as this blocks certain aspects of the game from being implemented (such as this role idea). All games should be fun regardless if you die n1 or live to the end of the game.

How often do people stay in the game after they've died

I've rarely seen anyone leave games because they'll lose like, the maximum amount of ELO.

No one is talking about specifically ranked even then it still happens.

Most people go afk in dead chat after one night in ranked anyway