Mafia and Town Investigative Reworks

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Mafia and Town Investigative Reworks

Postby OreCreeper » Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:24 pm

Mafia Deception:
Framer:
- Chooses a player to frame and another player to mimic (both players can be anyone, regardless of faction).
- If a sheriff/investigator checks the framed player, he would see the mimicked player's results.
- (See Spy rework) If a spy bugs who a framed player visits, he would see the framed player's visit as a malicious visit if the mimicked player has a malicious visit, and vice versa.
- Lookouts watching who the mimicked player visits will see the framed player's name on their visit list instead of the mimicked player's name.
- Trackers tracking the framed player will see them visit who the mimicked player visits.
- Framed players are guaranteed to appear in Psychic visions, and may or may not be the only "evil" in the vision.
- Frames last for one night only.
- The Framer's visit to the mimicked player is astral.
NOTES: Frames do not work as a "transport", it is only one way. So, if a sheriff checks the mimicked player, he would still see their true results. Only the framed player has his results changed. The exception to this is the lookout, because if the lookout still sees the mimicked player's visit, it reduces a lot of the framer's effectiveness since it would still be a 1-for-1. This is basically just the new disguiser, but with its ability ported over to framer, since I feel like it would be way better to have one mafia role that can affect all TIs than to have 2 mafia roles affect different TIs. Frames are no longer semi-permanent to account for these buffs.

Disguiser:
- You may choose to disguise a mafia member (including yourself) as any other player (including other members of the mafia or yourself).
- If they die that night, or are lynched the next day, their role will flip as the role that you disguised them as.
- Disguises will no longer fool investigators, since that ability has been ported to the framer.
- A disguised mafia member's corpse would appear to be usable to the retributionist if they are disguised as a usable role. If the retri chooses to use them, the corpse will perform the visit, and trigger any traps, but will not perform their ability.
- The disguiser will visit both of its targets.
NOTES: This version of disguiser may coincide slightly with forger's ability, but forger is used to open claimspace for mafia and close claimspace for town, while this version of disguiser is useful for creating uncertainty when a player is killed or lynched, like the old disguiser, but can do it for other mafia members too, so it doesn't have to die to be useful. The old disguiser played a very important role just by being able to spawn, and with it gone, if someone claims a particular role and flip as that role when they die, the town can know for 100% certainty that they are that role. With this version of disguiser, that certainty is removed.

Forger:
- For retributionists, forged corpses will perform the function of the role they were forged as, rather than their true role.
- You may copy and paste into forged wills.
- Pressing escape will save a forged will.
NOTES: These are mainly just quality of life changes for the forger, except for the retributionist change, which is just there to create consistency.

Hypnotist:
- Added the following messages:
"You were cured of poison!"
"You were poisoned. You will die tomorrow unless you are cured!"
"Someone tried to role block you but you are immune!"
"A Witch tried to control you but you are immune!"
- Removed the following messages:
"You triggered a trap!"
"A trap attacked you but someone nursed you back to health!"
- Added an additional option: clear messages. This prevents the hypnotized player from receiving any non-investigative/death notifications that night.
NOTES: Gives more utility to the Hypnotist.

Mafia Killing
Ambusher:
- The ambusher's identity will no longer be revealed to ambushed visitors. However, any other visitors will still receive the message.
NOTES: Prevents medium from being a hardcounter to Ambusher.

Idea for new Mafia Killing role: Stalker.

Town Investigative
Sheriff:
- Once all non-detection immune evils are dead, the remaining evils (including NE) lose their detection immunity.
NOTES: Makes Sheriff more on par with the power of Investigator.

Spy:
- Removed the passive ability to see mafia/coven visits.
- Bugs now reveal all non-investigative messages the player recieves (including messages such as being roleblocked in jail).
- You will know how many benign roles (Town/NB) visit your target, as well as how many malicious roles (non-Town/NB) visit your target.
- Rampaging roles will recieve a message "You attacked <x> players!" instead of recieving a separate notification for each person they attack.
NOTES: Spy will no longer hardcounter visiting mafia/coven roles. Gains the ability to see the number of townie visits to make up for the nerf.


Lookout:
- If more than 4 visitors visit the Lookout's target, the Lookout will not be able to see any names.
NOTES: Removes RNG from the role. Visit count upped to 4 to compensate for the heavy nerf.
OreCreeper
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Re: Mafia and Town Investigative Reworks

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Oct 29, 2020 6:11 am

OreCreeper wrote:Mafia Deception:
Framer:
- Chooses a player to frame and another player to mimic (both players can be anyone, regardless of faction).
- If a sheriff/investigator checks the framed player, he would see the mimicked player's results.
- (See Spy rework) If a spy bugs who a framed player visits, he would see the framed player's visit as a malicious visit if the mimicked player has a malicious visit, and vice versa.
- Lookouts watching who the mimicked player visits will see the framed player's name on their visit list instead of the mimicked player's name.
- Trackers tracking the framed player will see them visit who the mimicked player visits.
- Framed players are guaranteed to appear in Psychic visions, and may or may not be the only "evil" in the vision.
- Frames last for one night only.
- The Framer's visit to the mimicked player is astral.
NOTES: Frames do not work as a "transport", it is only one way. So, if a sheriff checks the mimicked player, he would still see their true results. Only the framed player has his results changed. The exception to this is the lookout, because if the lookout still sees the mimicked player's visit, it reduces a lot of the framer's effectiveness since it would still be a 1-for-1. This is basically just the new disguiser, but with its ability ported over to framer, since I feel like it would be way better to have one mafia role that can affect all TIs than to have 2 mafia roles affect different TIs. Frames are no longer semi-permanent to account for these buffs. Seems ok imo

Disguiser:
- You may choose to disguise a mafia member (including yourself) as any other player (including other members of the mafia or yourself).
- If they die that night, or are lynched the next day, their role will flip as the role that you disguised them as.
- Disguises will no longer fool investigators, since that ability has been ported to the framer.
- A disguised mafia member's corpse would appear to be usable to the retributionist if they are disguised as a usable role. If the retri chooses to use them, the corpse will perform the visit, and trigger any traps, but will not perform their ability.
- The disguiser will visit both of its targets.
NOTES: This version of disguiser may coincide slightly with forger's ability, but forger is used to open claimspace for mafia and close claimspace for town, while this version of disguiser is useful for creating uncertainty when a player is killed or lynched, like the old disguiser, but can do it for other mafia members too, so it doesn't have to die to be useful. The old disguiser played a very important role just by being able to spawn, and with it gone, if someone claims a particular role and flip as that role when they die, the town can know for 100% certainty that they are that role. With this version of disguiser, that certainty is removed. It has the same problem than disguiser from last updte but still like it

Forger:
- For retributionists, forged corpses will perform the function of the role they were forged as, rather than their true role.
- You may copy and paste into forged wills.
- Pressing escape will save a forged will.
NOTES: These are mainly just quality of life changes for the forger, except for the retributionist change, which is just there to create consistency. Like it

Hypnotist:
- Added the following messages:
"You were cured of poison!"
"You were poisoned. You will die tomorrow unless you are cured!"
"Someone tried to role block you but you are immune!"
"A Witch tried to control you but you are immune!"
- Removed the following messages:
"You triggered a trap!"
"A trap attacked you but someone nursed you back to health!"
- Added an additional option: clear messages. This prevents the hypnotized player from receiving any non-investigative/death notifications that night.
NOTES: Gives more utility to the Hypnotist. This messages were really needed

Mafia Killing
Ambusher:
- The ambusher's identity will no longer be revealed to ambushed visitors. However, any other visitors will still receive the message.
NOTES: Prevents medium from being a hardcounter to Ambusher. ok...this nerfs med who is already pretty weak but ok

Idea for new Mafia Killing role: Stalker.

Town Investigative
Sheriff:
- Once all non-detection immune evils are dead, the remaining evils (including NE) lose their detection immunity.
NOTES: Makes Sheriff more on par with the power of Investigator. this sounds good untill you remember that forger, jani and game modes like all any where you dont know who the evils are

Spy:
- Removed the passive ability to see mafia/coven visits.
- Bugs now reveal all non-investigative messages the player recieves (including messages such as being roleblocked in jail).
- You will know how many benign roles (Town/NB) visit your target, as well as how many malicious roles (non-Town/NB) visit your target.
- Rampaging roles will recieve a message "You attacked <x> players!" instead of recieving a separate notification for each person they attack.
NOTES: Spy will no longer hardcounter visiting mafia/coven roles. Gains the ability to see the number of townie visits to make up for the nerf. Tbh, this seems even more weak than my rework idea


Lookout:
- If more than 4 visitors visit the Lookout's target, the Lookout will not be able to see any names.
NOTES: Removes RNG from the role. Visit count upped to 4 to compensate for the heavy nerf.
as someone else suggested, it would be better if you know th enumer of visitors if more than 3 visit
syjfwbaobfwl
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Posts: 747
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 1:50 pm

Re: Mafia and Town Investigative Reworks

Postby OreCreeper » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:55 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:
OreCreeper wrote:Mafia Deception:
Framer:
- Chooses a player to frame and another player to mimic (both players can be anyone, regardless of faction).
- If a sheriff/investigator checks the framed player, he would see the mimicked player's results.
- (See Spy rework) If a spy bugs who a framed player visits, he would see the framed player's visit as a malicious visit if the mimicked player has a malicious visit, and vice versa.
- Lookouts watching who the mimicked player visits will see the framed player's name on their visit list instead of the mimicked player's name.
- Trackers tracking the framed player will see them visit who the mimicked player visits.
- Framed players are guaranteed to appear in Psychic visions, and may or may not be the only "evil" in the vision.
- Frames last for one night only.
- The Framer's visit to the mimicked player is astral.
NOTES: Frames do not work as a "transport", it is only one way. So, if a sheriff checks the mimicked player, he would still see their true results. Only the framed player has his results changed. The exception to this is the lookout, because if the lookout still sees the mimicked player's visit, it reduces a lot of the framer's effectiveness since it would still be a 1-for-1. This is basically just the new disguiser, but with its ability ported over to framer, since I feel like it would be way better to have one mafia role that can affect all TIs than to have 2 mafia roles affect different TIs. Frames are no longer semi-permanent to account for these buffs. Seems ok imo

Disguiser:
- You may choose to disguise a mafia member (including yourself) as any other player (including other members of the mafia or yourself).
- If they die that night, or are lynched the next day, their role will flip as the role that you disguised them as.
- Disguises will no longer fool investigators, since that ability has been ported to the framer.
- A disguised mafia member's corpse would appear to be usable to the retributionist if they are disguised as a usable role. If the retri chooses to use them, the corpse will perform the visit, and trigger any traps, but will not perform their ability.
- The disguiser will visit both of its targets.
NOTES: This version of disguiser may coincide slightly with forger's ability, but forger is used to open claimspace for mafia and close claimspace for town, while this version of disguiser is useful for creating uncertainty when a player is killed or lynched, like the old disguiser, but can do it for other mafia members too, so it doesn't have to die to be useful. The old disguiser played a very important role just by being able to spawn, and with it gone, if someone claims a particular role and flip as that role when they die, the town can know for 100% certainty that they are that role. With this version of disguiser, that certainty is removed. It has the same problem than disguiser from last updte but still like it

Forger:
- For retributionists, forged corpses will perform the function of the role they were forged as, rather than their true role.
- You may copy and paste into forged wills.
- Pressing escape will save a forged will.
NOTES: These are mainly just quality of life changes for the forger, except for the retributionist change, which is just there to create consistency. Like it

Hypnotist:
- Added the following messages:
"You were cured of poison!"
"You were poisoned. You will die tomorrow unless you are cured!"
"Someone tried to role block you but you are immune!"
"A Witch tried to control you but you are immune!"
- Removed the following messages:
"You triggered a trap!"
"A trap attacked you but someone nursed you back to health!"
- Added an additional option: clear messages. This prevents the hypnotized player from receiving any non-investigative/death notifications that night.
NOTES: Gives more utility to the Hypnotist. This messages were really needed

Mafia Killing
Ambusher:
- The ambusher's identity will no longer be revealed to ambushed visitors. However, any other visitors will still receive the message.
NOTES: Prevents medium from being a hardcounter to Ambusher. ok...this nerfs med who is already pretty weak but ok

Idea for new Mafia Killing role: Stalker.

Town Investigative
Sheriff:
- Once all non-detection immune evils are dead, the remaining evils (including NE) lose their detection immunity.
NOTES: Makes Sheriff more on par with the power of Investigator. this sounds good untill you remember that forger, jani and game modes like all any where you dont know who the evils are

Spy:
- Removed the passive ability to see mafia/coven visits.
- Bugs now reveal all non-investigative messages the player recieves (including messages such as being roleblocked in jail).
- You will know how many benign roles (Town/NB) visit your target, as well as how many malicious roles (non-Town/NB) visit your target.
- Rampaging roles will recieve a message "You attacked <x> players!" instead of recieving a separate notification for each person they attack.
NOTES: Spy will no longer hardcounter visiting mafia/coven roles. Gains the ability to see the number of townie visits to make up for the nerf. Tbh, this seems even more weak than my rework idea


Lookout:
- If more than 4 visitors visit the Lookout's target, the Lookout will not be able to see any names.
NOTES: Removes RNG from the role. Visit count upped to 4 to compensate for the heavy nerf.
as someone else suggested, it would be better if you know th enumer of visitors if more than 3 visit

For disguiser, the old one was bad because it needed to die to confirm itself. This version of disguiser is way more powerful because if, say, a sheriff comes out d2 and your mafioso is claiming sheriff. You can then disguise your mafioso as the sheriff, and any other mafia members, so the more mafia members that die, the more the rolelist gets screwed over.

For ambusher, the change was needed because with a medium in game, ambusher is forced to do nothing all game because the minute they score a kill, the player they killed will out them to the medium. Killing the medium doesn't work either, since the med can still seance.

For sheriff, idrk what you mean by that, it's only that you get to find detection immune evils if you get all evils you can catch killed.

For spy, it's not really that weak. If you bug someone and you see one townie visit them, and 2 people claim TI who visited that player, you know one of them is lying (unless there is a framer, of course).

For lookout, I'm not really a fan of nerfing this role too much. Knowing the number of visits makes the role too similar to my spy rework so I made it see no visits, but amped the cap up to 4.
OreCreeper
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