Trapper Buff

[OreCreeper]

Traps now have 3 durability. Each visit on a trapped player reduces the trap by 1 durability. At the start of each night, you will be alerted to how much durability your trap has left. If the trap loses all of its durability, it will be destroyed at the end of the night. For example, if 2 players visit a trapped player on a night the trap is placed, the trap loses 2 durability. The trapper will be informed that their trap has 1 durability remaining the next night. If 1 player and an attacker visit the trapped player this night, the trap will trigger for both players and counterattack the attacker, but will be destroyed at the end of the night. This makes it so that traps aren't as fragile, and won't be instantly destroyed by a random TP role or something. If a trapped player is attacked, it will immediately trigger and break the trap that night, regardless of how much durability it has left.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Like it, but the problem is that it would become more RNG than before if more than 3 people visited, anyway I lke this much more than the current trapper

[DiamondRanger8]

Tbh trapper is supposed to be an extremely powerful role when everyone knows who has the trap, since it stops evils and Townies from visiting them. However, if this were the case, there would be no reason to come out as trapper since the chances of your trap being destroyed are much smaller.

[OreCreeper]

Like it, but the problem is that it would become more RNG than before if more than 3 people visited, anyway I lke this much more than the current trapper

No, it wouldn't be RNG. If a trap has any durability left, it will trigger for all visitors that night. Durability loss has lower priority than all the other actions, like the original Trapper. Here are some examples:

1. Trapper places trap, a sheriff and doctor visit the trapped player on the same night. The trap triggers for both visitors, and loses 2 durability. The trapper sees that his trap has 1 durability remaining at the start of the next night. The following night, a janitor and a mafioso visit. The trap triggers for both the janitor and the mafioso, and attacks the mafioso, losing its remaining durability. The trap breaks after the night is over.

2. Trapper places a trap, a spy visits and a potion master attacks the trapped player on the same night. The trap triggers for both the PM and spy, attacks the PM, and loses all of its durability because it fended off an attack, breaking after the night is over.

Also, obviously the durability can't go below zero.

Tbh trapper is supposed to be an extremely powerful role when everyone knows who has the trap, since it stops evils and Townies from visiting them. However, if this were the case, there would be no reason to come out as trapper since the chances of your trap being destroyed are much smaller.

No, trapper is terrible when people know who has the trap. Evils have countless ways to deal with an exposed trap, such as simply having a non-killing evil visit, or having the CL/necromancer control a player/corpse onto the trapped player. Not to mention that if another TP protects the same person as you do, or a Lookout watches the same person that you do, you lose your trap immediately for basically nothing. The worst case is when another trapper has the same idea as you, because you basically just wasted 2 nights for 2 TP roles.

[Soulshade55r]

I'm aganist this Trapper is actually very powerful imo, I don't think it needs a major buff it's slow but I've had games where trappers carry

[OreCreeper]

I'm aganist this Trapper is actually very powerful imo, I don't think it needs a major buff it's slow but I've had games where trappers carry

I mean it can carry, but most of the time some random townie just goes along and triggers your trap and you have to spend another 2 days building and placing one. It's actually really hard to have your traps kill an attacker because of that. Most of the time, the trapper just acts as a discount TI role. This just makes trapper on par with the other TP roles who can protect their target every night, because it makes their traps last longer, which was what should be happening in the first place.

[Soulshade55r]

I'm aganist this Trapper is actually very powerful imo, I don't think it needs a major buff it's slow but I've had games where trappers carry

I mean it can carry, but most of the time some random townie just goes along and triggers your trap and you have to spend another 2 days building and placing one. It's actually really hard to have your traps kill an attacker because of that. Most of the time, the trapper just acts as a discount TI role. This just makes trapper on par with the other TP roles who can protect their target every night, because it makes their traps last longer, which was what should be happening in the first place.

Wouldn't mind it if traps didn't remain on death tbh

[OreCreeper]

I'm aganist this Trapper is actually very powerful imo, I don't think it needs a major buff it's slow but I've had games where trappers carry

I mean it can carry, but most of the time some random townie just goes along and triggers your trap and you have to spend another 2 days building and placing one. It's actually really hard to have your traps kill an attacker because of that. Most of the time, the trapper just acts as a discount TI role. This just makes trapper on par with the other TP roles who can protect their target every night, because it makes their traps last longer, which was what should be happening in the first place.

Wouldn't mind it if traps didn't remain on death tbh

That could work if my idea was implemented.

[DiamondRanger8]

Like it, but the problem is that it would become more RNG than before if more than 3 people visited, anyway I lke this much more than the current trapper

No, it wouldn't be RNG. If a trap has any durability left, it will trigger for all visitors that night. Durability loss has lower priority than all the other actions, like the original Trapper. Here are some examples:

1. Trapper places trap, a sheriff and doctor visit the trapped player on the same night. The trap triggers for both visitors, and loses 2 durability. The trapper sees that his trap has 1 durability remaining at the start of the next night. The following night, a janitor and a mafioso visit. The trap triggers for both the janitor and the mafioso, and attacks the mafioso, losing its remaining durability. The trap breaks after the night is over.

2. Trapper places a trap, a spy visits and a potion master attacks the trapped player on the same night. The trap triggers for both the PM and spy, attacks the PM, and loses all of its durability because it fended off an attack, breaking after the night is over.

Also, obviously the durability can't go below zero.

Tbh trapper is supposed to be an extremely powerful role when everyone knows who has the trap, since it stops evils and Townies from visiting them. However, if this were the case, there would be no reason to come out as trapper since the chances of your trap being destroyed are much smaller.

No, trapper is terrible when people know who has the trap. Evils have countless ways to deal with an exposed trap, such as simply having a non-killing evil visit, or having the CL/necromancer control a player/corpse onto the trapped player. Not to mention that if another TP protects the same person as you do, or a Lookout watches the same person that you do, you lose your trap immediately for basically nothing. The worst case is when another trapper has the same idea as you, because you basically just wasted 2 nights for 2 TP roles.

This is why you come out as trapper, and tell everyone who you trap. Maybe CL and Necromancer can destroy the trap, but all TPs are supposed to have they're strengths and weaknesses.

[Ghosty221]

Like it, but the problem is that it would become more RNG than before if more than 3 people visited, anyway I lke this much more than the current trapper

No, it wouldn't be RNG. If a trap has any durability left, it will trigger for all visitors that night. Durability loss has lower priority than all the other actions, like the original Trapper. Here are some examples:

1. Trapper places trap, a sheriff and doctor visit the trapped player on the same night. The trap triggers for both visitors, and loses 2 durability. The trapper sees that his trap has 1 durability remaining at the start of the next night. The following night, a janitor and a mafioso visit. The trap triggers for both the janitor and the mafioso, and attacks the mafioso, losing its remaining durability. The trap breaks after the night is over.

2. Trapper places a trap, a spy visits and a potion master attacks the trapped player on the same night. The trap triggers for both the PM and spy, attacks the PM, and loses all of its durability because it fended off an attack, breaking after the night is over.

Also, obviously the durability can't go below zero.

Tbh trapper is supposed to be an extremely powerful role when everyone knows who has the trap, since it stops evils and Townies from visiting them. However, if this were the case, there would be no reason to come out as trapper since the chances of your trap being destroyed are much smaller.

No, trapper is terrible when people know who has the trap. Evils have countless ways to deal with an exposed trap, such as simply having a non-killing evil visit, or having the CL/necromancer control a player/corpse onto the trapped player. Not to mention that if another TP protects the same person as you do, or a Lookout watches the same person that you do, you lose your trap immediately for basically nothing. The worst case is when another trapper has the same idea as you, because you basically just wasted 2 nights for 2 TP roles.

This is why you come out as trapper, and tell everyone who you trap. Maybe CL and Necromancer can destroy the trap, but all TPs are supposed to have they're strengths and weaknesses.

Where is trapper's strength?

[Brilliand]

Trapper's chief strength is that it kills the attacker, and it doesn't die in exchange like a Bodyguard. It basically gets a free (non-life-risking) Bodyguard protect every 2 nights.

[OreCreeper]

Trapper's chief strength is that it kills the attacker, and it doesn't die in exchange like a Bodyguard. It basically gets a free (non-life-risking) Bodyguard protect every 2 nights.

Yeah, but it's easy to have your trap destroyed for absolutely no gain (e.g. random bodyguard decides to guard your target). My suggestion doesn't change the 2-night cooldown, and also doesn't allow it to kill more than one attacker with a single trap. It's just to make trapper not be immediately screwed over by visiting town.

[Brilliand]

It's also easy for a Bodyguard to go all game without ever scoring that one kill. At least when the Trapper doesn't get to save/kill anyone, he gets some investigative info to compensate.

It isn't even necessary for the trap to last multiple nights, really. Just spending 50% of the time as a combination undying bodyguard + role-lookout is pretty strong.

[DiamondRanger8]

That's not the devs fault, just annoying Townies. If the Town is at fault for messing up the game that's on them. All buffing it would do is give it a lower skill cap.

[OreCreeper]

It's also easy for a Bodyguard to go all game without ever scoring that one kill. At least when the Trapper doesn't get to save/kill anyone, he gets some investigative info to compensate.

It isn't even necessary for the trap to last multiple nights, really. Just spending 50% of the time as a combination undying bodyguard + role-lookout is pretty strong.

You failed to realize that when trapper loses their trap, they need to spend another night to build it, and that's one night where all townies are vulnerable, so the mafia/coven can just go in and kill the jailor with little repercussions. The investigative info doesn't even count because trapper is a TP role and the purpose of TPs is to protect, and not investigate. Whereas while a BG can go all game without scoring a kill, it means evils will never have a chance to kill the jailor unless the BG is dead.

[Brilliand]

You failed to realize that when trapper loses their trap, they need to spend another night to build it, and that's one night where all townies are vulnerable, so the mafia/coven can just go in and kill the jailor with little repercussions.

No I didn't. I accounted for that by saying "50% of the time". He can't give constant protection, and in exchange, he does something crazy powerful when he guesses the right night.

The investigative info doesn't even count because trapper is a TP role and the purpose of TPs is to protect, and not investigate.

Everything counts. The investigative info confirms the Trapper, and confirms other townies, whereas the classic TPs (Doctor and Bodyguard) can only confirm themselves by scoring a protect.

Whereas while a BG can go all game without scoring a kill, it means evils will never have a chance to kill the jailor unless the BG is dead.

Sure, BG is good at something too.

Doctor is the best role for that job though, since Bodyguard can be forced to die without scoring a kill by several of the Coven's abilities, or bypassed by a Hex Master with Necronomicon.

[DiamondRanger8]

The point of trapper is that it's able to get a possible kill on an evil, or stop an evil from visiting the trapped target, with the downside that is they can only trap every other night. Also, if none of the Town visit the Jailor, the evils would have to sacrifice one of they're own unless CL plays well or there's a Necromancer, and that's an extremely risky move, not to mention NKs can't even take such a move.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

The point of trapper is that it's able to get a possible kill on an evil, or stop an evil from visiting the trapped target, with the downside that is they can only trap every other night. Also, if none of the Town visit the Jailor, the evils would have to sacrifice one of they're own unless CL plays well or there's a Necromancer, and that's an extremely risky move, not to mention NKs can't even take such a move.

*Arso, PM and HM laughs at this comment*

[OreCreeper]

You failed to realize that when trapper loses their trap, they need to spend another night to build it, and that's one night where all townies are vulnerable, so the mafia/coven can just go in and kill the jailor with little repercussions.

No I didn't. I accounted for that by saying "50% of the time". He can't give constant protection, and in exchange, he does something crazy powerful when he guesses the right night.

Yeah but it's about as low as the pre-buff framer guessing who a TI visits, and technically actually the chance is even lower because if the trapper guessing wrong, he has to wait one or more nights before being able to protect again.

The investigative info doesn't even count because trapper is a TP role and the purpose of TPs is to protect, and not investigate.

Everything counts. The investigative info confirms the Trapper, and confirms other townies, whereas the classic TPs (Doctor and Bodyguard) can only confirm themselves by scoring a protect.

But TPs are supposed to be protecting, not investigating.

Whereas while a BG can go all game without scoring a kill, it means evils will never have a chance to kill the jailor unless the BG is dead.

Sure, BG is good at something too.

Doctor is the best role for that job though, since Bodyguard can be forced to die without scoring a kill by several of the Coven's abilities, or bypassed by a Hex Master with Necronomicon.
Fair, but consistent protection is way more powerful than getting away with killing one evil, especially considering how hard it is to do that for the trapper. Consistent protection means that important roles like the jailor are pretty much unkillable for evils as long as TPs are alive, but if the TP is a trapper, then it's not that good because half the nights, you leave important townies vulnerable. Not to mention it can only have one trap set at a time.

[Brilliand]

But TPs are supposed to be protecting, not investigating.

And lookouts are supposed to be investigating, not protecting; but it turns out they can do both jobs at once.

Same goes for Trapper.

Fair, but consistent protection is way more powerful than getting away with killing one evil, especially considering how hard it is to do that for the trapper. Consistent protection means that important roles like the jailor are pretty much unkillable for evils as long as TPs are alive, but if the TP is a trapper, then it's not that good because half the nights, you leave important townies vulnerable. Not to mention it can only have one trap set at a time.

Is it really more powerful for one important role to never be targeted until the protector is dead, than for one evil night to be spent killing the evil instead of killing a townie? I don't think so.

Is the Jailor really more valuable than the combination of one lesser townie+one evil?

(I'm also ignoring the possibility of the Trapper having their trap last multiple nights here, which usually happens in practice due to not trying to protect the Jailor.)