Spy(Overhall/Canned)

[cob709]

Spy
Town Support
Abilities:

- Every night, you may attempt to manipulate a member of the Mafia or Coven

Attributes:

- At night, you may select to manipulate a Mafia or Coven role.
- If you successfully manipulate a member of the Mafia or Coven, they will use their ability on a member of their faction.
- You will be informed if you successfully manipulate someone.
- You cannot manipulate the Godfather, Mafioso, Necromancer, Medusa, or the holder of the Necronomicon.

Notifications:

- You have decided to manipulate a (Random Mafia) tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a Disguiser tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Forger tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Framer tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Hypnotist tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Janitor tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Ambusher tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Blackmailer tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Consigliere tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Consort tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a (Random Coven) tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a Coven Leader tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Hex Master tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Poisoner tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Potion Master tonight.

- You have successfully manipulated someone last night!
- You have failed to manipulate anyone last night.

Additional Notes:

- I moved Spy to Town(Support).
- I can feel the hateful feedback this role is going to get already.
- Summary: Witch but on Town's team, and they don't get to control who they target nor do they get to target certain roles.

[Brilliand]

- I can feel the hateful feedback this role is going to get already.

Yeah it's uh...

• not anything that could accurately be called a "spy"
• a Witch, and therefore extremely powerful, easily capable of nullifying one Mafia role
• a role with no actual choices to make, just the ability to do a fixed thing each night that's a no-brainer (the current Spy is sort of this too, but ideally a rework should fix that)
• an RNG role I think?

Actually... is this an RNG role? I'm not completely clear on how it determines which RM role it "manipulates", or which other Mafia member the "manipulator" is forced to target.

[cob709]

- I can feel the hateful feedback this role is going to get already.

Yeah it's uh...

• not anything that could accurately be called a "spy"
• a Witch, and therefore extremely powerful, easily capable of nullifying one Mafia role
• a role with no actual choices to make, just the ability to do a fixed thing each night that's a no-brainer (the current Spy is sort of this too, but ideally a rework should fix that)
• an RNG role I think?

Actually... is this an RNG role? I'm not completely clear on how it determines which RM role it "manipulates", or which other Mafia member the "manipulator" is forced to target.

Spy chooses to "manipulate" consort -> Consort targets a member of the mafia

[Brilliand]

Actually... is this an RNG role? I'm not completely clear on how it determines which RM role it "manipulates", or which other Mafia member the "manipulator" is forced to target.

Spy chooses to "manipulate" consort -> Consort targets a member of the mafia

Okay, so there's RNG in which member of the Mafia the Consort targets (and which Consort gets controlled if there's multiple), but no RNG in the decision to control the Consort.

But really, being able to consistently choose to control a Consort into a guaranteed Mafia member means that this role can shut down 2 (!!!) Mafia roles every night in any game with a Consort... and it's only a Town role, so it should ideally be weaker than any one Mafia role.

[TheFluffyWaffleV2]

Spy
Town Support
Abilities:

- Every night, you may attempt to manipulate a member of the Mafia or Coven. How do a spy do that

Attributes:

- At night, you may select to manipulate a Mafia or Coven role.
- If you successfully manipulate a member of the Mafia or Coven, they will use their ability on a member of their faction. Wat
- You will be informed if you successfully manipulate someone. oh so it's a better sheriff, got it
- You cannot manipulate the Godfather, Mafioso, Necromancer, Medusa, or the holder of the Necronomicon. So there are only about 2 people per game you actually effect. Incredible.

Notifications:

- You have decided to manipulate a (Random Mafia) tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a Disguiser tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Forger tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Framer tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Hypnotist tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Janitor tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Ambusher tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Blackmailer tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Consigliere tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Consort tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a (Random Coven) tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a Coven Leader tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Hex Master tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Poisoner tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Potion Master tonight.

- You have successfully manipulated someone last night!
- You have failed to manipulate anyone last night.

Additional Notes:

- I moved Spy to Town(Support).
- I can feel the hateful feedback this role is going to get already.
- Summary: Witch but on Town's team, and they don't get to control who they target nor do they get to target certain roles.

This is just a Sheriff but better.

[cob709]

Spy
Town Support
Abilities:

- Every night, you may attempt to manipulate a member of the Mafia or Coven. How do a spy do that

Attributes:

- At night, you may select to manipulate a Mafia or Coven role.
- If you successfully manipulate a member of the Mafia or Coven, they will use their ability on a member of their faction. Wat
- You will be informed if you successfully manipulate someone. oh so it's a better sheriff, got it
- You cannot manipulate the Godfather, Mafioso, Necromancer, Medusa, or the holder of the Necronomicon. So there are only about 2 people per game you actually effect. Incredible.

Notifications:

- You have decided to manipulate a (Random Mafia) tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a Disguiser tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Forger tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Framer tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Hypnotist tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Janitor tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Ambusher tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Blackmailer tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Consigliere tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Consort tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a (Random Coven) tonight.

- You have decided to manipulate a Coven Leader tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Hex Master tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Poisoner tonight.
- You have decided to manipulate a Potion Master tonight.

- You have successfully manipulated someone last night!
- You have failed to manipulate anyone last night.

Additional Notes:

- I moved Spy to Town(Support).
- I can feel the hateful feedback this role is going to get already.
- Summary: Witch but on Town's team, and they don't get to control who they target nor do they get to target certain roles.

This is just a Sheriff but better.

no it isnt
read again

[TheFluffyWaffleV2]

no it isnt
read again

It's Sheriff, but you witch mafia into another mafia when you find them.

Obviously, if you get a message that the manipulation was successful, you found a member of the Mafia/Coven.
You also ignore Framers and Hex Masters.

The only difference is that it doesn't work on Mafioso, Necromancer, and Medusa

[ScarfVendetta]

It's Sheriff, but you witch mafia into another mafia when you find them.

Obviously, if you get a message that the manipulation was successful, you found a member of the Mafia/Coven.
You also ignore Framers and Hex Masters.

The only difference is that it doesn't work on Mafioso, Necromancer, and Medusa

I think the role chooses the type of role to target rather than a specific player, hence it doesn't actually find the perpetrator.

Still, the role is flawed for a number of reasons:
- It's a powerful role that requires very little skill to utilise (find a suitable role to manipulate then abuse their ability over and over)
- The effects of it's ability are affected heavily by RNG
- Against the Coven faction particularly, it's ridiculously overpowered (e.g. it can force Poisoner to kill a good portion of it's own team, without the need to know who the Poisoner is or who they will target)

Additionally, as Brilliand said, this role doesn't even remotely resemble a "Spy".

[FrenchyTheSphee]

The role simply doesn't fit spy and seems too overpowered or too underpowered with a load of rng.

[ABadWord]

I'm just confused as to why this is needed? A town member that finds most coven/mafia roles, then after finding them, has them gamethrow.
This isn't fun to play against at all.

[seltzerwater]

I think you shouldn't get a notification if the manipulation worked, so it's less about guessing until you find the RM roles and more about reading the game to deduce what the Mafia is doing. Maybe it could just rb/waste a use of the RM role (in order to avoid RNG, the rb can just target the first RM in the role list), because what does it matter if like a Janitor selects a GF for his clean rather than just a rb.