Role Improvement Ideas, Role Idea.

[solsson]

Lookout: Lookout will now only lookout over people's houses and will therefore not die to say to Veteran, Medusa, Ambusher, or Werewolf, Juggernaut or Pestilence using "Rampage". Lookout will also now not be infected/doused by visiting the Pestilence/Arsonist or infected/doused players.

Reasons: With the next patch supposedly nerfing Lookout, I feel like it could also do with a buff. This will make it more elegantly do its role of looking out for others.

Escort/Consort: Will now apply a role block similar to the Jailor in being able to role block role block immune roles. Excluding Serial Killer and other Escorts and Consorts.

Reasons: I feel like with the new patch news, Escort will become to weak, as it isn't too powerful, and for the role blocker role, it doesn't even have the most powerful role block. Consort is supposed to mimic the Escort as best as possible, so applying it with and giving a buff to Mafia as well seems only fair. This will make both Mafia and Town get a better edge over Neutrals now that they will gain such power.

Medium: Give them the right to seance every night that they aren't alive.

Make so when the dead see more than one Medium that they will display different colours.
Medium 1# Blue.
Medium 2# Yellow.
Medium 3# Pink.
Medium 4# Orange.

Reasons: Medium in my opinion is a very good role with a lot of potential, the role however rarely ever does anything. However, this is also nothing to make them too terribly more powerful, but I feel like they would be slight better if they could seance when dead, so even if Town didn't believe their claim and lynched them, that they can still help in a way, if they seance the correct person. I also kinda want different Mediums to have different colours, as when dead, it can be easy to get confused when a single Medium is speaking like they are 3 different people.

Vigilante: will attack with a powerful bullet instead, killing roles with Basic Defense.

Reasons: I feel like Vigilante is already a very rework needed role, it is too Town screwy with little reward to even it out. A lot of players don't seem to ever really try with the role, they just random shoot and hope for the best. In many cases, when random shooting, the Vigilante will just end up killing a Town. With there being more 19 Town roles, and 23 non-town roles that it can kill, it creates a failure in the point of a Vigilante, as allot of the times it will just end up dying having killed a Sheriff or some shit. A lot of those 23 roles aren't even needed to win, such as Neutral Evil and Neutral Benign roles.So, I think it should be able to take down basic Defense, which will give it a more of a dangerous edge. Especially good now that the Neutrals killings are being buffed.

Ambusher: will be able Ambush with a Powerful attack, killing roles with basic defense but will prioritise a target with no defense.

Reasons: Basically, As of now, it is too easy for Ambusher to get fucked over by anything immune. if they visit the same person as the Serial Killer, or Arsonist. They would be instantly screwed. So they will be able to kill a Basic Defense role. However, if role with lower defense than basic visits the same person as the Serial Killer and Ambusher. Ambusher will still attack the one with the weakest defense first. This will give Mafia a larger edge against neutrals killings.

Disguiser: now has the power to disguise as someone and then falsify for Tracker and Lookout whom they visit.

Reasons: When you disguise, you would then also be able to choose who you will visit as that person. If you say, disguise as "George" and decide to go to "Timothy", you will make it seem to Lookout that George visited Timothy. If Tracker tracks George, it will show both the one they were disguised to go to as well as who they actually went for. This can then be used as a way to frame others for being say, a Mafioso. If you send them to the person who is being killed by the Mafia, and you suspect there is a Lookout on the target, you can send another person to appear as if they were going there to give Lookout more numbers, and if they are say a Psychic, and don't visit at night, Tracker will only see the disguised visit, this will make them look like the Mafioso faking to be Psychic. This will also give far more claim space for evils.

Sheriff: When Interrogating. Sheriff will now perform a role block.

Reasons: Not as powerful as Escort, Jailor or Consort, but still a normal role block. This will kill them if they interrogate the Serial Killer and bloody up their will too. But, this will make the Sheriff better, as right now it isn't terribly powerful. At least not compared to the other Town Investigative roles, in my opinion.

Framer: Will no longer appear for Spy's "Mafia visits". Will no longer appear as Suspicious! For Sheriff.

Reasons: Framer in my opinion, is one of the most in need of a buff. This will make their job as a Framer better and easier, and make their role have an actual use aside from being a claim to avoid suspicion. This will also making so figuring out who is actually framed and not is a lot harder. as Spy cannot see them anymore.

Hypnotist: Will now perform a more accurate hypnosis, being the exact same as the original.

Reasons: Hypnotist is not a good role as pretty much almost anything it can do can be easily seen through if you just know how the game works. Having it be more accurate will make this role cause more confusion and be more of a threat.

Juggernaut: Will now appear as Lookout, Forger, Coven Leader or Juggernaut. For Investigator.

Reasons: Since Juggernaut is becoming more common, I feel it is harsh to have it have no results to Investigator. So I put it in the tiniest result section.

Poisoner: Necronomicon will now also give Poisoner Powerful attack, as well as keep the uncurable poison.

Reasons: The Poisoner is by far the weakest of the Coven Roles. I feel like it needs a massive buff to be able to even compete with the other 5 in being good. So, for it to be able to take down Basic Defense feels like a good buff for it.

Transporter: Transporter will now no longer be able to transport Medusa stoning, Veteran on alert, Werewolf staying at home during rampage, Pestilence.

Reasons: As it makes no sense, as it would be stoned shot or mauled trying to transport and therefore the transportation would be unsuccessful, this would also remove the part where you know who the Veteran is but die to Veteran anyways because the Transporter transported your target with the Veteran.

Arsonist: Arsonist will now be unique.

Reasons: With this huge buff to Arsonist, I feel like it should become a unique role.

New role:

Name: Observer.

Alignment: Town Investigative.

Immunities:
Attack: None.
Defense: None.

Type:
Information
Non-unique.

Investigation results:

Sheriff: You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.

Investigator: Your target could be Spy, Blackmailer, Jailor, Guardian Angel or Observer.

Consigliere/Potion Master/Coven Leader: Your Target secretly watches who your enemy visits. They must be an Observer.

Summary:

A talented watcher who keeps track of the loners.

Abilities:
You may bug a player's house to see what happens to them that night.

Attributes: You will know who the Neutrals visit at Night.

Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.

Victory Conditions:
Wins with:
Town
Survivor

Must kill:
Mafia
Vampires
Arsonist
Serial Killer
Werewolf
Coven
Plaguebearer
Pestilence
Juggernaut

Reasons: This will be a Spy, but it will focus on Neutrals rather than Mafia and Coven.

It will be able to see:
Amnesiac: Who the Amnesiac remembers.
Arsonist: Who the Arsonist decides doused.
Guardian Angel: Who they protect.
Juggernaut: Who they decide to assault.
Pirate: Who the Pirate pirates.
Plaguebearer: Who they decide to infect.
Pestilence: Who they decide to kill.
Serial Killer: Who they decide to stab.
Vampire: Who the Vampires visit.
Werewolf: Who they decide to maul.

This will make it be able to instantly be able to know what visiting neutral roles are in Town. Vampires would suffer most to this as this would alert the Vampire Hunter on who has been plausibly bitten. But the Vampires are already one of the easiest roles to win with in the game, so I wont mind it becoming harder. by "decide" I mean, players that weren't directly targeted by the role will not be told as they weren't visited, such as if someone goes to the Arsonist and is doused, or if the Serial Killer is role blocked, or say if they visited the same person as the Werewolf.

i would love to get input on this. Thank you for reading through all of this. It is quite a lot. Hehe...

//solsson

[MacReturned]

It will be able to see:
Amnesiac: Who the Amnesiac remembers.
Arsonist: Who the Arsonist decides doused.
Guardian Angel: Who they protect.
Juggernaut: Who they decide to assault.
Pirate: Who the Pirate pirates.
Plaguebearer: Who they decide to infect.
Pestilence: Who they decide to kill.
Serial Killer: Who they decide to stab.
Vampire: Who the Vampires visit.
Werewolf: Who they decide to maul.

This will make it be able to instantly be able to know what visiting neutral roles are in Town. Vampires would suffer most to this as this would alert the Vampire Hunter on who has been plausibly bitten. But the Vampires are already one of the easiest roles to win with in the game, so I wont mind it becoming harder. by "decide" I mean, players that weren't directly targeted by the role will not be told as they weren't visited, such as if someone goes to the Arsonist and is doused, or if the Serial Killer is role blocked, or say if they visited the same person as the Werewolf.

i would love to get input on this. Thank you for reading through all of this. It is quite a lot. Hehe...

OK, the neutral visits are pretty useless: I'll explain why:
Amne: You can literally see who they remember during the day???
Arso: Useful. Might be too OP
GA: No.
Jugg: You can help to find immune i guess??
Pirate: I can't see why this would help
Plaguebearer: Useful I guess.
Pest: Like you can literally see who they kill during the day. Who they attack are most likely dead as the attack's powerful.
SK: Find immune (GF or other NK)
Vamp: MY GOD NONONO THIS IS INSANE IT'S LIKE EXTREMELY BUFFED VH, YOU LITERALLY KNOW WHO THE VAMPIRES ARE
WW: No. Just no. (same reason with pest)

Sorry for the criticism, but the only Neutral visits I agree with is Arso douses and PB visits
Also you would get TONS of notifs out of this (Coven All Any). Think about it

[Brilliand]

Lookout: Lookout will now only lookout over people's houses and will therefore not die to say to Veteran, Medusa, Ambusher, or Werewolf, Juggernaut or Pestilence using "Rampage". Lookout will also now not be infected/doused by visiting the Pestilence/Arsonist or infected/doused players.

No way man, this is a terrible time to be buffing the Lookout. It's currently OP.

Escort/Consort: Will now apply a role block similar to the Jailor in being able to role block role block immune roles. Excluding Serial Killer and other Escorts and Consorts.

You realize the entire point of roleblock immunity is to be immune to the Escort/Consort?

If you want Escort/Consort to affect more things, then propose that they lose their roleblock immunity, not that roleblock immunity no longer mean anything.

(However, the only roleblock-immune role I can think of that doesn't have a good reason for it is Pestilence, and that doesn't seem worth making a fuss about.)

Medium: Give them the right to seance every night that they aren't alive.

Make so when the dead see more than one Medium that they will display different colours.
Medium 1# Blue.
Medium 2# Yellow.
Medium 3# Pink.
Medium 4# Orange.

Reasons: Medium in my opinion is a very good role with a lot of potential, the role however rarely ever does anything. However, this is also nothing to make them too terribly more powerful, but I feel like they would be slight better if they could seance when dead, so even if Town didn't believe their claim and lynched them, that they can still help in a way, if they seance the correct person. I also kinda want different Mediums to have different colours, as when dead, it can be easy to get confused when a single Medium is speaking like they are 3 different people.

You're buffing the most overpowered aspects of the Medium: the cross-confirmation, and the fact that it makes it impossible for the Mafia to silence anybody.

I'm just gonna stop reading there, as I doubt the rest of your suggestions will be any better.

[solsson]

Nah, dw. I was seeking criticism. Though, on the point of the Vampires. You wouldn't know if the bite failed or not, and they are able to be bitten. But, it'd would be an excellent help to find Basic Defences. This threat to the neutrals makes it a bigger target if it were to reveal itself. As well as it being supposedly quite easy to fake. Making it a ploy for example Executioner to say "Hey, this person was visited by Vampires." To get their target lynched. While this does help the Executioner lynch them, if they aren't hung that same day, the target risks dying to other evils, being believed to be Vampire.

My point is, while it has high power, these powers come with great risks too. Though, I agree, Guardian Angel and Amnesiac would be usefull. But, if Serial Killer were to hit an immune Night 1, they are akerted of its presence before a successful kill is in line. With Werewolf, it could help seize wether the Werewolf visited or was visited. While, the pestilence attacks, it also kills more than that most of the time, so, knowing who was visited could help confirm claims. Juggernaut, similar to the Werewolf, but at it's own thing.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

I personally agree with Mac returned on the observer role and agree that it should not be added, there isn't more to say here on it; so I will go to your role buffs/nerfs suggestions because some of them are fantastic and others are downright insane.

1: I really like the Lookout buff; it looks pretty good. A tiny buff that really won't matter, but a good addition.

2: Really like this too since it nerfs town by making escort roleblock transporter by accident and at the same time giving consort the ability to roleblock the transporter.

3: The Medium changes are also very nice, but the thing is Medium is gonna be reworked in the future either way. But if medium doesn't get reworked then adding the seance buff would be very nice, but what I do think is unnecessary is the medium colors. Since it makes mafia lose the chance to fake that there are 2 mediums and it just helps town to easily identify that there are 2. It should be a bit difficult since it confirms two people at once.

4: Vigilante no, just no. The buff is definitely way too much for a role that can already 1 v 4 the mafia and Neutral killing.

5: Ambusher is good; I don't really play coven, so can't judge there.

6: I like the buff a lot assuming that disguiser also gets the buff making him keep his disguise. Not a really huge buff, and probably unnecessary since most disguises just disguise as Tis that come out d2, but it doesn't hurt either.

7: NOOOOOO. This buff you just added completely destroys all evils. Since 90% of evils and yes this is an accurate number from experience, 90% of games there will always be one or two evil players claiming sheriff. What you don't realise with this buff, this buff completely destroys anyone that claims sheriff. Also completely destroys Executionor. This buff makes claiming sherrif impossible with out outing 2 or 3 of your own mafia in the process, while killing neutral chances of claiming sherrif.

8: Good buff for framer.

9: I won't really judge any of the Coven buffs.

10: ^

11: ^

12: Not really a nerf to transporter, but an addition that makes sense.

13: Nothing more to say here.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

Nah, dw. I was seeking criticism. Though, on the point of the Vampires. You wouldn't know if the bite failed or not, and they are able to be bitten. But, it'd would be an excellent help to find Basic Defences. This threat to the neutrals makes it a bigger target if it were to reveal itself. As well as it being supposedly quite easy to fake. Making it a ploy for example Executioner to say "Hey, this person was visited by Vampires." To get their target lynched. While this does help the Executioner lynch them, if they aren't hung that same day, the target risks dying to other evils, being believed to be Vampire.

My point is, while it has high power, these powers come with great risks too. Though, I agree, Guardian Angel and Amnesiac would be usefull. But, if Serial Killer were to hit an immune Night 1, they are akerted of its presence before a successful kill is in line. With Werewolf, it could help seize wether the Werewolf visited or was visited. While, the pestilence attacks, it also kills more than that most of the time, so, knowing who was visited could help confirm claims. Juggernaut, similar to the Werewolf, but at it's own thing.

As well as destroying vampires chances of winning the game, also destroys any basic defense chance of winning the game. It's just too overpowered.


Edit: I realized mid way how overpowered this role is in an average all any game. This role pretty much confirms all the basic defenses, the amount of visiting neutrals in the game, an easily confirmable role that is near impossible to fake claim, also poor vampires.

/nosupport way too overpowered

[solsson]

I personally agree with Mac returned on the observer role and agree that it should not be added, there isn't more to say here on it; so I will go to your role buffs/nerfs suggestions because some of them are fantastic and others are downright insane.

1: I really like the Lookout buff; it looks pretty good. A tiny buff that really won't matter, but a good addition.

2: Really like this too since it nerfs town by making escort roleblock transporter by accident and at the same time giving consort the ability to roleblock the transporter.

3: The Medium changes are also very nice, but the thing is Medium is gonna be reworked in the future either way. But if medium doesn't get reworked then adding the seance buff would be very nice, but what I do think is unnecessary is the medium colors. Since it makes mafia lose the chance to fake that there are 2 mediums and it just helps town to easily identify that there are 2. It should be a bit difficult since it confirms two people at once.

4: Vigilante no, just no. The buff is definitely way too much for a role that can already 1 v 4 the mafia and Neutral killing.

5: Ambusher is good; I don't really play coven, so can't judge there.

6: I like the buff a lot assuming that disguiser also gets the buff making him keep his disguise. Not a really huge buff, and probably unnecessary since most disguises just disguise as Tis that come out d2, but it doesn't hurt either.

7: NOOOOOO. This buff you just added completely destroys all evils. Since 90% of evils and yes this is an accurate number from experience, 90% of games there will always be one or two evil players claiming sheriff. What you don't realise with this buff, this buff completely destroys anyone that claims sheriff. Also completely destroys Executionor. This buff makes claiming sherrif impossible with out outing 2 or 3 of your own mafia in the process, while killing neutral chances of claiming sherrif.

8: Good buff for framer.

9: I won't really judge any of the Coven buffs.

10: ^

11: ^

12: Not really a nerf to transporter, but an addition that makes sense.

13: Nothing more to say here.

Thank you, though, on the point of the Sheriff change. If Escort and Consort were to change to be more effective, someone would need to take over that role. Who else other than the man who does his job by openly interrogating a person. In this sense, it would just make people claim something else. There is a reason so few people fake claim say Mayor, Transporter or Escort as they are hard to impersonate. But, not only would this hold strengh against the evils. It would also role block the Town roles.

[FrenchyTheSphee]

I get what you are saying, but currently what we are trying to do is make mafia be able to claim more roles. Not the opposite.