Lamia: Neutral Evil

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Total votes : 2

Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby Ddynamo » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:44 am

Role Name: Lamia


Role Description: You are a half-snake woman who uses her powerful magic to trick the town.


Role Alignment: Neutral Evil


Abilities: Select a player to enchant their house. All visits toward them, including your own, are astral for the night.


Attributes: Astral visits will not count as visits for the purposes of the Veteran, Lookout, Tracker, Bodyguard, etc.


Goal: Live to see town lose.


Investigative Results:

Sheriff: Your target seems innocent!
Investigator: Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, Lamia, or Potion Master(I give it these results specifically because TP would be an decently easy role to fakeclaim as this role, since TPs as a whole are harder to confirm with its existence.)
Consigliere: Your target is a beautiful sorceress. They must be a lamia!


Additional Information: I thought of this role as a means to counter Lookout meta. If this visits a TPLO call, town wouldn't be able to prove any TP claims at all as the lookout wouldn't see any visits. But it has use beyond that, as it can help killing roles kill without being caught by Lookout, neuter Veterans that alerted that night, or give people a safety net against the Werewolf. Optionally, I would move Jester and Executioner to Neutral Benign as this and Witch seem to fit the concept better.
Last edited by Ddynamo on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Sudura2020 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:58 am

Is he an astral visit? You say he neuters vets, you don't say he dies.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Ddynamo » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:14 pm

All visits to the player in question become astral. Including his own.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Sudura2020 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:49 pm

Ddynamo wrote:All visits to the player in question become astral. Including his own.


sounds a lot like it doesnt become astral he just is astral tho or it kinda causes a time paradox dont it
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:30 pm

This is a pretty good option for a new NE role if Jester and Executioner are moved out of NE.

If it were a Mafia role it would be overpowered, but as an NE role if anything it's too weak because it doesn't have any way to detect the Mafia to figure out who its allies are.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Sudura2020 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:57 pm

Brilliand wrote:This is a pretty good option for a new NE role if Jester and Executioner are moved out of NE.

If it were a Mafia role it would be overpowered, but as an NE role if anything it's too weak because it doesn't have any way to detect the Mafia to figure out who its allies are.


on a real doe brilliand my fam

thinkin about it, aint this role just coverin for the town being op? it's all counters, innit. like a bag of galaxy counters. or an accounting department.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:02 pm

Sudura2020 wrote:thinkin about it, aint this role just coverin for the town being op? it's all counters, innit. like a bag of galaxy counters. or an accounting department.


Yeah, and at first I misread it as a Mafia role and thought it was pretty dumb. But... as an NE, there's a lot of skill involved in guessing which target will be useful to visit on any given night. I think that makes it OK.

Unreliable counters that require predicting the actions of players who aren't being honest with you are in general a good thing.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby MacReturned » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:12 pm

You could spam it on a Jailor if a lot of TPs had died and Mafia could just easily swoop up the free kill.

But still overall good
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby cob709 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:03 pm

The flavor is kinda questionable

but the Abilities and Attributes are great! I like this role.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:03 pm

MacReturned wrote:You could spam it on a Jailor if a lot of TPs had died and Mafia could just easily swoop up the free kill.


Doesn't seem like a problem for me really, since once a lot of TPs have died the Jailor is probably unprotected anyway.

(And if there are still TPs around, then one of them might be a Doctor, which this doesn't stop.)
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby ABadWord » Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:48 pm

Throw the role on the pile for testing. So long as it stays NE it seems damn perfect to splinter the TPLO meta.

Just needs the lore and results fleshed out.
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Re: Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby Ddynamo » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:38 am

I've redone the lore for this role, pulling from Greek Mythology to make it.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:40 pm

Sudura2020 wrote:sounds a lot like it doesnt become astral he just is astral tho or it kinda causes a time paradox dont it


This role seems like something that could cause a paradox, but I can't actually think of an example that would result in a paradox. Everything is solved by the explanation "this role becomes astral when its ability resolves, and everything that cares about astral has lower priority than it". Since none of the paradox-causing roles (roles that redirect or roleblock) care about Astral, that works out nicely.

Things might get weird if a role that "roleblocks all visitors" gets added, but I think the natural ruling there is that that role would roleblock the Lamia.
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Re: Falconer: Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:32 am

MacReturned wrote:You could spam it on a Jailor if a lot of TPs had died and Mafia could just easily swoop up the free kill.

But still overall good

That's the point dude, it stops the TP/LO meta. I like this role a lot

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Last updated 20.07.20 AEST


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Re: Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:33 am

I'm concerned that in practice, that a weaker role like medium claims to test the TP/LO meta. All go on that, if they get scared off then Jailor doesn't claim. If not the jailor can claim and do it on D2.

Or for example. TP/LO all go on Player 1.

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Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
Latest Neutral Game: SFM72 - Failed Assassin - Win
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Re: Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:32 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:I'm concerned that in practice, that a weaker role like medium claims to test the TP/LO meta. All go on that, if they get scared off then Jailor doesn't claim. If not the jailor can claim and do it on D2.

Or for example. TP/LO all go on Player 1.


So you're saying that the Jailor meta will be delayed for a day if this role isn't in the game, or canceled entirely if it is? That's pretty good.
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Re: Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:04 am

Brilliand wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:I'm concerned that in practice, that a weaker role like medium claims to test the TP/LO meta. All go on that, if they get scared off then Jailor doesn't claim. If not the jailor can claim and do it on D2.

Or for example. TP/LO all go on Player 1.


So you're saying that the Jailor meta will be delayed for a day if this role isn't in the game, or canceled entirely if it is? That's pretty good.

Jailor meta won't be delayed, the crux of it is confirming TPs via the LO. But if the Jailor is alive, it would delay their protection a day yeah. Sure it's a step in the right direction but I am not entirely sure if it'll solve the issue.

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Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
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Re: Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby Brilliand » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:09 am

JacksonVirgo wrote:Jailor meta won't be delayed, the crux of it is confirming TPs via the LO. But if the Jailor is alive, it would delay their protection a day yeah. Sure it's a step in the right direction but I am not entirely sure if it'll solve the issue.


I think nullifying the meta if this role shows up in the game is all we can reasonably expect one role to do.
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Re: Lamia: Neutral Evil

Postby JacksonVirgo » Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:19 am

Brilliand wrote:
JacksonVirgo wrote:Jailor meta won't be delayed, the crux of it is confirming TPs via the LO. But if the Jailor is alive, it would delay their protection a day yeah. Sure it's a step in the right direction but I am not entirely sure if it'll solve the issue.


I think nullifying the meta if this role shows up in the game is all we can reasonably expect one role to do.

That's true

On-site FM Record: 8-0-10
Spoiler: Latest Town Game: XX7 - Tracker/Detective/Sheriff/Lookout - Win
Latest Scum Game: 20H - Caporegime/Janitor - Loss
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