Bloody Mary [Neutral(Chaos)]

[videogamer8071]

Role Name: Bloody Mary

Role Alignment: Neutral(Chaos)

Abilities:
-Once you are dead, you may visit a living player each night. (you do not know the roles of anyone and you are able to visit ALL living players, even more than once [not only the targets you are trying to kill])
-If you visit a role you seek revenge on, you will attack them with a Powerful attack. (This can still be blocked by Bodyguards, Crusaders, Doctors, etc.)
-You are not notified if you attack a target or if a target is protected.

Attributes:
-If you are lynched, you will seek revenge on the Town.
-If you are killed at night, you will seek revenge on the faction(s)/role(s) that killed you. (For example, if you are killed by Mafia and a Serial Killer, then you will be able to attack mafia members and serial killers in the night)

Possible add(EDIT): -You must kill at least 1 player to win the game if you die.

Notifications:
On death: "Bloody Mary seeks her revenge on those who wronged her..."

Goal:
-Stay alive to the end of the game or cause the team/role that killed you to lose.

Win Conditions:
You win with Town
You win with Survivors
You win with Mafia
You win with Coven
You win with Serial Killers
You win with Arsonists
You win with Werewolves
You win with Vampires
You may spare anyone else.
You must kill the role(s) that kill(s) you if you die.

Special Attributes:
Unique Role
Conversion Immunity
Detection Immunity

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is innocent.
Investigator - Your target is a Lookout, Forger, Coven Leader, or Bloody Mary.
Consigliere - Your target appears to be a demonic girl. They must be Bloody Mary.

Achievements:
Don't Say Her Name: Win 1 game as Bloody Mary.
Pure Revenge: Win 5 games as Bloody Mary.
Ritual: Win 10 games as Bloody Mary.
Demon from Hell: Win 25 games as Bloody Mary.
Grave Mistake: Kill a player as Bloody Mary.
Bloodbath: Kill 5 players as Bloody Mary in a single game.

Additional Information:
Bloody Mary was just a variation role idea inspired by Ultimate Werewolf. One of the expansion packs has a role called Bloody Mary that is on the village team and when she dies, she turns against the town if she is lynched and if she is killed by the werewolves, she kills them. If she is killed by a third party role, she hunts them down as well. I just thought it would be interesting to have in this game, and I considered having her be a town role, but with all the different alignments, I figured that wasn't a good idea. Please leave comments, I'm not really good at making role ideas, this one is just more for fun but it would be really cool if it was put in the game. (Yes i know she's basically kind of an upgraded jester)

[JacksonVirgo]

I really like this actually

[SparkingJay]

I love the name and the idea of the role! Would definitely be a fun role to play as

[Boredfan1]

Here's the problem. the first goal makes it a survivor which almost everyone hates while the second goal can give you the win, even if you lose. You could simple provoke someone by spamming or trolling, get killed and then win in the grave with little effort.

/no support

[videogamer8071]

Here's the problem. the first goal makes it a survivor which almost everyone hates while the second goal can give you the win, even if you lose. You could simple provoke someone by spamming or trolling, get killed and then win in the grave with little effort.

/no support

Understandable, but someone could (and people have) done that with jester to win as well.

[Rio890123]

Very good role idea! My main concern is this: what if she gets haunted by a guiltied jester? Same goes for pest (invincible)*? Does she automatically lose? Also if she is only able to attack opposing factions, and she is able to choose to attack**, does this reveal the members of the faction, and does this give other factions too much of an advantage (Bloody Mary could reveal roles to med/revived town)?

*It could work out that Bloody Mary doesn't have to kill pest if killed by pest, pest just has to lose.

**Of course, the simple solution is at night when you die, you choose yourself, and the game decides at random who to kill of the faction that killed you.


On the lighter side of things, imagine this death message if bloody mary dies: She was killed by a member of the mafia. She was also killed by a serial killer. She was also mauled by a werewolf. She was also shot by a vigilante. She was also bitten by a vampire. She was also hexed by the Hex Master. She was also plundered by a pirate. She was also incinerated by an arsonist. She was killed by Pestilence, Horseman of the Apocalypse. Imagine being bloody Mary and that's how you die. You're screwed . Good luck killing all the factions that killed you .

[videogamer8071]

If she gets haunted by a Jester, yes she automatically loses. Pest can still die resulting in her win. This is why I was on the fence of making it so Bloody Mary had to kill someone, but wasn't sure so I marked it as "Possible."

You do not know the roles of any player when you die. When you are dead you gain the ability to visit players and you will automatically attack them if they are opposing you, but you are not notified if you attack someone or not, you'll only know in the morning(aka if anyone died to you)

The chances of that happening are astronomical, and it can be luck based, anything can happen. It's more like...the later in game that Bloody Mary dies, the harder or easier it could be for her to win depending on how many players are left and people can use strategy to fake they're Bloody Mary so people are scared to attack her.

Thanks for looking at my idea! Much love ❤

[StrahmDude]

This would be a nice new neutral chaos role. Good for custom games, but should stay out of ranked.

[JacksonVirgo]

This would be a nice new neutral chaos role. Good for custom games, but should stay out of ranked.

NC isn't in ranked anyway

[Brilliand]

imo the "Survivor" portion of the goal should be removed. Without that part, this role would be a variant Jester (probably an improvement); with that part, this role doesn't much care what happens during the game, and thus lacks anything to work toward until after death (assuming that happens at all).

Also, a role that endlessly kills while dead is too powerful; it's likely to guarantee the death of its "revenge" faction just by visiting randomly, and there's not much anyone can do about it (certain protective roles can slow it down, but not every faction has those). I'd give it a limited number of visits (maybe 3?), and require that they be used on the nights immediately following death.

[PleaseReadSiege]

I like it. One idea though: What if Bloody Mary chose their target during the day, and was able to talk to the person they choose overnight when deciding whether to kill them? That way, people could have a chance to convince the bloody mary that they're on her side.

[videogamer8071]

imo the "Survivor" portion of the goal should be removed. Without that part, this role would be a variant Jester (probably an improvement); with that part, this role doesn't much care what happens during the game, and thus lacks anything to work toward until after death (assuming that happens at all).

Also, a role that endlessly kills while dead is too powerful; it's likely to guarantee the death of its "revenge" faction just by visiting randomly, and there's not much anyone can do about it (certain protective roles can slow it down, but not every faction has those). I'd give it a limited number of visits (maybe 3?), and require that they be used on the nights immediately following death.

In the additional information, I stated that I originally thought of making Bloody Mary a town but decided it didn't fit in with the game, so maybe I could make it so that if she is alive, she has the same win conditions as town instead of survivor win conditions? I think this role will probably be more on the rare side like Juggernaut, making it a powerful role that is not very commonly seen. I don't think her visit every night ability should be limited, as it could make her somewhat difficult to win with, especially if she gets killed by something like vampires that can spread or by a 4 man mafia that she can't finish off when they have half the town, as examples. She is supposed to be feared..so maybe there should be an announcement at the start of the game if there is a Bloody Mary or not? Probably not.

[Brilliand]

In the additional information, I stated that I originally thought of making Bloody Mary a town but decided it didn't fit in with the game, so maybe I could make it so that if she is alive, she has the same win conditions as town instead of survivor win conditions?

I don't think this role works as a townie. It would be even scarier for the evils to attack than the Veteran is, because it basically has to be killed last or the Town gets an easy win from the overpowered after-death ability.

I think this role will probably be more on the rare side like Juggernaut, making it a powerful role that is not very commonly seen.

Rare is no excuse for overpowered. The role should be judged on what it does to the game when it shows up, regardless of how frequent that is.

I don't think her visit every night ability should be limited, as it could make her somewhat difficult to win with, especially if she gets killed by something like vampires that can spread or by a 4 man mafia that she can't finish off when they have half the town, as examples. She is supposed to be feared..so maybe there should be an announcement at the start of the game if there is a Bloody Mary or not? Probably not.

Make her somewhat difficult to win with, seriously. Right now she is far, far too easy to win with. She should not be able to singlehandedly kill off an entire faction while that faction's other enemies sit on their hands.

[Gooose26]

Role Alignment: Neutral(Chaos)

Neutral Chaos is built to be chaotic, so it is not built to support competitive games or to be in TG. I do not believe that there will ever be a balanced take on this alignment. Persoally, I would look to switching your role into the Neutral Benign slot. NB is meant for roles that start off as a true neutral, but over time they choose sides to improve their chances of winning. (Yes, even Survivors choose sides). Changing alignments doesn't necessarily improve the role itself, but it is important that it gets sorted properly if we're ever to make a good game.

Abilities:
-Once you are dead, you may visit a living player each night. (you do not know the roles of anyone and you are able to visit ALL living players, even more than once [not only the targets you are trying to kill])
-If you visit a role you seek revenge on, you will attack them with a Powerful attack. (This can still be blocked by Bodyguards, Crusaders, Doctors, etc.)
-You are not notified if you attack a target or if a target is protected.

You don't need to specify that you can visit somebody twice, it's just commonly understood along with all other roles, for the most part. It's necessary for all roles, almost, especially when you account for roles like Transporter or Witch.

The rest of the abilities are basically the only way to implement the role as it is, so I'm just going to ignore the section in favor of focusing on the rest of my comments.

Attributes:
-If you are lynched, you will seek revenge on the Town.
-If you are killed at night, you will seek revenge on the faction(s)/role(s) that killed you. (For example, if you are killed by Mafia and a Serial Killer, then you will be able to attack mafia members and serial killers in the night)

Lynching being a cause against the town is gamebreaking. Let's say the evils have gained majority. In a situation with the Jester, the Jester actually loses because the evils don't want the Jester to hurt them, and he simply stays alive while the game ends. With Bloody Mary, there is no drawback to lynching her. She will win whenever the evils gain majority. I'm not suggesting a fix to this situation because I do not believe there is one without completely overhauling the role itself.

Being killed at night works as essentially a night-Jester, as compared to the Jester that we currently have that would be considered a day-Jester. It has been suggested many times in the past and its never really stuck in TG or as a great concept. I'd take a look at Parallax's Jester overhaul if you want to get a good look on how a night-Jester could be done properly.

Goal:
-Stay alive to the end of the game or cause the team/role that killed you to lose.

There's a lot to unpack here. I haven't read the comments yet (I like to make my own opinions), but I bet you've gotten a lot of "This is a Survivor + some stuff" comments. Nobody plays Town of Salem simply to survive and spectate the game, players hate that the same way they hate dying. That is why roles that have a "Stay alive to the end of the game" feel are not very well supported. I think this role would be better off if it could not win by staying alive, forcing it to play somewhat like a Jester in that it needs somebody to kill it.

Now looking at the other goal. "Cause the team/role that killed you to lose" is very Jester-esque. I think this role plays too closely to the playstyle of Jester. Sure, it can also help town, but so can the Jester, and the town has no effective way to turn Bloody Mary against the evils.

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Your target is innocent.
Investigator - Your target is a Lookout, Forger, Coven Leader, or Bloody Mary.
Consigliere - Your target appears to be a demonic girl. They must be Bloody Mary.

Don't worry about these, they're always a waste of time and the only way to make a good result is to completely redo the other results as well. Also, if this role has detection immunity, then the Sheriff result will be "Your target is not suspicious" if I remember correctly.

[Brilliand]

Also, if this role has detection immunity, then the Sheriff result will be "Your target is not suspicious" if I remember correctly.

This was changed recently to "You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.", which is a bit of a mouthful.

[Fnafg]

That's a good idea but where will the role be under the Coven Expansion or the normal free version of the game?

[ex7]

i love the idea of this role. although i would replace the win condition with "kill 3 or all off your wrong doers" that way if your lynched day 2 by town or killed by a solo mafioso ect. you can still win it just makes it a little more difficult. additionaly you could make it a "kill 2 or all wrong doers" and give them a limitede number of visits like 3 visits. but i would love to have this in game.