Some Suggestions For Roles

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby KulervoKankko » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:09 pm

Firstly i wanna apologiez if my post isn't upto standards on what's required for Role ideas.. All what what im suggesting is based on my own and multiple players opinions and experiences. If my post is in wrong section, again im sorry i haven't been active on forums before.

1st: Medium

Ultra passive role that has very little to do overall. The problem with this role in current form is that, player does have to do anything really( many even afk/leave). I would argue even if average/most players tried their best on this role, all they would be able to contribute for townies are messages from dead and vote with town. Some would counter argue that as messages from dead's are important, but i have very often seen medium post's get ignored or not believed (because this role dosent really have a action/ability to "confirm" them) because evil roles claim this very often aswell thus players like refer getting medium as "medium curse". Players who argue that talking to the dead's is important but more often than not players leave once they are dead and/or they have nothing which isnt in their will already.

What i would suggest?
Add an ability for medium to talk to someone who's alive for 1 night and once per game. Medium has to choose one player during day similarly as jailor chooses who is getting jailed to be able to talk to them. This would give more depth to medium role since its kinda occultist role anyway and makes sure medium's would have reason pay attention to chat and what's been said, so that they make the right choice to whom to talk during night. I cannot see how this would make medium too op or broken, just adds reason for medium's to stay in game and have something to contribute.


Jailor

This will be controversial. Currently if you take randomly 10 games chances are that u get something like 9/10 games jailor revealing themselves during D1 so that players can very easily ( maybe too easily) confirm eachother. For townies this is viewed as a good thing but for any evil its really nightmarish sitsuation trying to claim something or try to do something. Currently i have seen great majority players who get evil roles nk/maf leaving/throw as soon as jailor reveals themselves because it become almost impossible for them try and claim something that would even have a chance. For players who say that there isnt anything wrong with jailor revealing, just think about how are you meant to play evil roles from there on knowing there's always multiple tp's and ti's on jailor most likely whom have confirmed eachother.

What i would suggest?
for this i actually would have few ideas but i think this is the best one yet.
Remove the option for jailor to type in chat/whispers complitely. This would also make jailors pay more attention, so that they cannot rely on others info all the time. This would also even the playing field with town and evil roles since there would not be like 4-7 confirmed by D2 because of revealing, and would actually make townies work for their info and who to trust.


Amnesiac and Survivor

I honestly cannot see why these roles aren't currently in ranked practice or i just have not seen them at all. They add couple more intresting roles and little randomness to the game so that it wouldn't be as straight forwad. I suggest that in game there could be only 1 of these so either or type of thing.

Anyway thanks for anyone who read this. Please note that english is not my first language, so there can be some typos.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:17 am

Medium change would make it super autoconfirmable

Jailor change is just no; wtf it makes no sense and makes the role super unfun

Amne and surv arent in rank because surv is a kingmaker and amne is a super townsided NB because of the notification
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby KulervoKankko » Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:50 am

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Medium change would make it super autoconfirmable

Jailor change is just no; wtf it makes no sense and makes the role super unfun

Amne and surv arent in rank because surv is a kingmaker and amne is a super townsided NB because of the notification



So you would prefer to have jailor as it is now and evils throwing and leaving (not saying all will, but majority does that once jailor reveals themselves early)?
Dosent really sound like balanced game you want to play then or did i miss something?
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby Poryg » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:59 am

From what I see, majority of evils leave regardless of the jailor meta. The reason being, they don't want to be playing this role or they don't want to be playing solo or something similar to that. This leaving makes it super unfun for other evils too.

Nevertheless, the fact that the jailor meta makes people easily confirmable is not so true. As evils you must actively try to mislead or confuse town. And that is possible even with the jailor meta. Because being jailor is an incredibly stressful role, if you create chaos, it will be even more stressful.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby DemonsWrath » Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:03 am

As Kulervo said, the Jailor meta has made the game a lot easier for town to confirm.
Making it a lot harder for evils to win.
Whether you think the suggested idea for the Jailor is good or not.
Something needs to be done to counter this.

If you just want easy games, you can say that.
But, ranked and ranked practice is supposed to be a challenge, which it is not at present.

Amne/Surv adds in an element of randomness to the game.
Better yet, add "Any Role" back into the game and that'll bring the challenge right up.

But, as it stands, Jailor meta makes the game vastly easy for town, unless they're dumb as hell.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:02 am

KulervoKankko wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Medium change would make it super autoconfirmable

Jailor change is just no; wtf it makes no sense and makes the role super unfun

Amne and surv arent in rank because surv is a kingmaker and amne is a super townsided NB because of the notification



So you would prefer to have jailor as it is now and evils throwing and leaving (not saying all will, but majority does that once jailor reveals themselves early)?
Dosent really sound like balanced game you want to play then or did i miss something?


I think Jailor should be removed from Ranked. Ideally, I want all Town roles to have approximately the same level of power, and it's not really possible to nerf Jailor down to the level of other Town roles without making it super boring and unfunny. I like playing Jailor and having all that power in All Any, and Jailors usually don't reveal in that mode. So keep Jailor as it is but get it out of Ranked and I'll be happy.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:49 pm

KulervoKankko wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Medium change would make it super autoconfirmable

Jailor change is just no; wtf it makes no sense and makes the role super unfun

Amne and surv arent in rank because surv is a kingmaker and amne is a super townsided NB because of the notification



So you would prefer to have jailor as it is now and evils throwing and leaving (not saying all will, but majority does that once jailor reveals themselves early)?
Dosent really sound like balanced game you want to play then or did i miss something?


As bad as jailor is, I would rather have jailor meta than a role that is unable to speak at all, and no evils dont throw or leave cause jailor reveals, they do leave because they dont like playing evil and are trolls
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby DemonsWrath » Wed Nov 30, 2022 4:55 pm

A lot leave due to maf and nk games being really difficult to win.
Sure, a challenge is fun, but, not everyone wants to constantly fight to play a game like this all the time.
At the end of the day, ranked should be relatively balanced. It is not. At all.

I've been playing on and off for about 5 nearly, 6 years. And when they altered the ranked from having any role
to what it is now, it's a lot less enjoyable, especially since the Jailor meta came about.
You've been playing judging by your account date for 2 years. (if you have had accounts before that, I apologise for assuming)
but, the ranked practice alterations took place before your account came to be, and it was definitely a downgrade.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby cheeseandtomatos » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:42 pm

Town of Salem is all about the chat. I see where you're coming from, but how would removing Jailor's ability to talk stop the jailor meta? The Jailor can just tell the person they jailed n1, "Hey, I'm [name]. You claimed LO, so stay on me. Whisper Giles Corey, he's confirmed BG."

The Jailor meta should be attacked differently, like adding more roles or tweaking TP/LO attributes. Jailor is fine as is.

Btw - your english is damn good, for it being your second language.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby WaveAqualei » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:53 pm

cheeseandtomatos wrote:Town of Salem is all about the chat. I see where you're coming from, but how would removing Jailor's ability to talk stop the jailor meta? The Jailor can just tell the person they jailed n1, "Hey, I'm [name]. You claimed LO, so stay on me. Whisper Giles Corey, he's confirmed BG."

The Jailor meta should be attacked differently, like adding more roles or tweaking TP/LO attributes. Jailor is fine as is.

Btw - your english is damn good, for it being your second language.

I agree with adding more roles or tweaking the TP/LO attributes, but Jailor is NOT fine at all.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby KulervoKankko » Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:25 am

Well, nice to see so many sharing their opinion my first post. Very intresting views on opinions indeed, and don't get me wrong my idea of nerfing the jailor as in trying to fix the problem was and propably is a very radical way of trying to do that. Mainly because im a person that enjoys balanced games overall, rather than making sure all roles are fun/enjoyable to play. But what i can see from these answers, i think we can all agree that there is something wrong with the balance of the game or multiple roles. Lastly i wanna say thanks cheeseandtomatos, for your nice comment about my grammar.
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Re: Some Suggestions For Roles

Postby alex1234321 » Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:38 am

KulervoKankko wrote:Well, nice to see so many sharing their opinion my first post. Very intresting views on opinions indeed, and don't get me wrong my idea of nerfing the jailor as in trying to fix the problem was and propably is a very radical way of trying to do that. Mainly because im a person that enjoys balanced games overall, rather than making sure all roles are fun/enjoyable to play. But what i can see from these answers, i think we can all agree that there is something wrong with the balance of the game or multiple roles. Lastly i wanna say thanks cheeseandtomatos, for your nice comment about my grammar.


I would argue that your suggestion of making Jailor unable to talk is structurally unbalanced. This is a game that revolves around talking, so all roles should have full access to the chat. Which is why I don't like Blackmailer as a role. If you make the game less about talking, then you no longer have a social deduction game.
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