Shapeshifter (Coven Evil)

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Shapeshifter (Coven Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:00 am

Shapeshifter - Coven (Evil)

Summary: You are a Navajo occultist that reforms the appearance of others.

Attack: Basic
Defense: None
Priority: ?
Unique: Yes

Abilities:
    - You may Possess a player and morph them as another player at night.
Attributes:
    - You will attack the Possessed player if they visit your second target.
    - You may target the Coven.
    - You must wait a night to Possess a player after successfully attacking someone.
    - With the Necronomicon, you no longer have an attacking cooldown and will deal a Basic Attack to your Possessed target.
Possess Spoiler: Possess = The possessed player will appear to have the same role as the morphed player to the Sheriff, Investigator, and Consigliere. The possessed player will appear as the morphed player to a Lookout. The possessed player will appear to visit the same as the morphed player to a Tracker.
Investigative Results:
    Sheriff: Your target is suspicious! (without the Necronomicon) | You cannot find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent. (with the Necronomicon)
    Investigator: Your target could be a Bodyguard, Crusader, Godfather, Shapeshifter, or Arsonist.
    Consigliere: Your target alters one's perceptions into reality. They must be the Shapeshifter.

Goal: Kill all who would oppose the Coven.

Victory Conditions: Same as other Coven.

Notifications:
    "You have decided to possess (player) tonight."
    "You have decided to morph (player) as (player2) tonight."
    "Your target's defense was too strong to kill."

    "You were slain by the Shapeshifter!"
    "They were slain by the Shapeshifter."

Mechanics:
    - Your visit on the possessed player is direct, whereas targeting the morphed player is indirect, and cannot be seen by Spy, Lookout and Tracker.
    - You may possess other Coven, but not yourself. You will not kill the Coven member if they visit your disguised target.
    - You may disguise other Coven, along with yourself.
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby Poryg » Sat Nov 12, 2022 8:29 pm

Honestly, I think disg for coven is useless. They already have necronomicon and hex master to mess around with invest results. Plus the fact that you cannot possess the player twice makes him even more useless, because you cannot conceal someone as a certain claim. Not only that, there are even further issues regarding wording and logic.

You say that the disguised target will appear to have the same invest results as the possessed one. However, from what I've understood, this role is supposed to possess and disguise target 1 as 2. This not only means that the possessed player is the disguised player, the disguise also swaps two players' invest results. Which doesn't really make sense.

You're possessing a player at night, but this player not only doesn't have their visits changed, they're not even rbd. How is that a possession then?
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:20 am

Poryg wrote:Honestly, I think disg for coven is useless. They already have necronomicon and hex master to mess around with invest results. Plus the fact that you cannot possess the player twice makes him even more useless, because you cannot conceal someone as a certain claim. Not only that, there are even further issues regarding wording and logic.

Disguiser for Coven is NOT useless. Coven Gamemodes have very little deception it’s ludicrous (Hex Master and the Necronomicon don’t have that covered). Coven should have the ability to deceive but they don’t have to be able to do it as well as Mafia can, which is why it can’t possess the same person twice in a row.

You say that the disguised target will appear to have the same invest results as the possessed one. However, from what I've understood, this role is supposed to possess and disguise target 1 as 2. This not only means that the possessed player is the disguised player, the disguise also swaps two players' invest results. Which doesn't really make sense.

Yeah this was a typo, thanks for pointing that out.

You're possessing a player at night, but this player not only doesn't have their visits changed, they're not even rbd. How is that a possession then?

It’s flavor text, don’t take it too seriously.
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby Poryg » Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:28 am

Coven modes have less deception, but higher kpn to compensate for it. CL kills every night from n3 on. Witching a non-immune attacking role can even cause 2 deaths at once. Poisoner kills up to every day from N2 on. Dusa is a vet, HM a weaker arso and then we have PM who kills once every 3 days. Only necro doesn't kill without the book or dead attackers. If we give coven more deception without tackling their kpn, they'll turn OP.
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:40 pm

Poryg wrote:Coven modes have less deception, but higher kpn to compensate for it. CL kills every night from n3 on. Witching a non-immune attacking role can even cause 2 deaths at once. Poisoner kills up to every day from N2 on. Dusa is a vet, HM a weaker arso and then we have PM who kills once every 3 days. Only necro doesn't kill without the book or dead attackers. If we give coven more deception without tackling their kpn, they'll turn OP.

That's why I've been working on trying to tone down their KPN. Coven Leader kills every night on N3+ since it gets the Necronomicon first, which makes sense. Poisoner needs edits, you can look at my Poisoner Overhaul here. You can't really balance Medusa's KPN since it relies on visitors completely. Hex Master I want to turn more into a deception role but I don't believe the community would be too fond of that. Potion Master doesn't need any changes since it's consistently a Jack-of-all-trades. Necromancer is dependent on the dead and clashes too much with Medusa; I didn't completely finish it, but you can see my Necromancer edits here. I'm pretty positive I know how to fix each Coven role, but I'd need to make a separate post for it.
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby DragoWhooves » Wed Nov 16, 2022 12:01 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
Poryg wrote:Coven modes have less deception, but higher kpn to compensate for it. CL kills every night from n3 on. Witching a non-immune attacking role can even cause 2 deaths at once. Poisoner kills up to every day from N2 on. Dusa is a vet, HM a weaker arso and then we have PM who kills once every 3 days. Only necro doesn't kill without the book or dead attackers. If we give coven more deception without tackling their kpn, they'll turn OP.

That's why I've been working on trying to tone down their KPN. Coven Leader kills every night on N3+ since it gets the Necronomicon first, which makes sense. Poisoner needs edits, you can look at my Poisoner Overhaul here. You can't really balance Medusa's KPN since it relies on visitors completely. Hex Master I want to turn more into a deception role but I don't believe the community would be too fond of that. Potion Master doesn't need any changes since it's consistently a Jack-of-all-trades. Necromancer is dependent on the dead and clashes too much with Medusa; I didn't completely finish it, but you can see my Necromancer edits here. I'm pretty positive I know how to fix each Coven role, but I'd need to make a separate post for it.

How about tweaking the CL so they can choose to not attack (maybe non-attacking visits are Astral with Necronomicon?)

Also +Support for Skinwalker
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:05 pm

DragoWhooves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
Poryg wrote:Coven modes have less deception, but higher kpn to compensate for it. CL kills every night from n3 on. Witching a non-immune attacking role can even cause 2 deaths at once. Poisoner kills up to every day from N2 on. Dusa is a vet, HM a weaker arso and then we have PM who kills once every 3 days. Only necro doesn't kill without the book or dead attackers. If we give coven more deception without tackling their kpn, they'll turn OP.

That's why I've been working on trying to tone down their KPN. Coven Leader kills every night on N3+ since it gets the Necronomicon first, which makes sense. Poisoner needs edits, you can look at my Poisoner Overhaul here. You can't really balance Medusa's KPN since it relies on visitors completely. Hex Master I want to turn more into a deception role but I don't believe the community would be too fond of that. Potion Master doesn't need any changes since it's consistently a Jack-of-all-trades. Necromancer is dependent on the dead and clashes too much with Medusa; I didn't completely finish it, but you can see my Necromancer edits here. I'm pretty positive I know how to fix each Coven role, but I'd need to make a separate post for it.

How about tweaking the CL so they can choose to not attack (maybe non-attacking visits are Astral with Necronomicon?)

Also +Support for Skinwalker

The kill method for CL is fine since it has the Necronomicon at that point. I’d rather nerf the Investigative info (that’s PM’s job!).
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby Poryg » Thu Nov 17, 2022 4:06 am

But then PM's pots need to be reworked, because you won't do much with investing someone once every 3 days.
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:44 pm

Poryg wrote:But then PM's pots need to be reworked, because you won't do much with investing someone once every 3 days.

PM's reveal potion is foolproof, and so is CL's control. Nerfing CL would make PM better at investigating.

Anyway, about Skinwalker. I might make it fool a Spy but I am not sure how.
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby DragoWhooves » Thu Nov 17, 2022 3:46 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
Poryg wrote:But then PM's pots need to be reworked, because you won't do much with investing someone once every 3 days.

PM's reveal potion is foolproof, and so is CL's control. Nerfing CL would make PM better at investigating.

Anyway, about Skinwalker. I might make it fool a Spy but I am not sure how.

How about CL doesn't know target's role? or can't visit the same target twice in a row?
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Re: Skinwalker (Coven Evil)

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:45 pm

DragoWhooves wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
Poryg wrote:But then PM's pots need to be reworked, because you won't do much with investing someone once every 3 days.

PM's reveal potion is foolproof, and so is CL's control. Nerfing CL would make PM better at investigating.

Anyway, about Skinwalker. I might make it fool a Spy but I am not sure how.

How about CL doesn't know target's role? or can't visit the same target twice in a row?

I actually made Witch/CL edits, you can find them here.
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