Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

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Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri May 20, 2022 8:13 pm

Note: This is an edited version of Rolestopper, made by Ezradekezra and was edited by the Testing Grounds' Balancing team.

Scarecrow - Neutral (Evil)

Summary: You are an animated strawman that scares away unwelcome settlers.

Attack: None
Defense: Basic (None after dealt a Basic Attack)
Unique: No
Priority: 1

Abilities:
    - You may stalk someone at night, scaring away anyone that visits them.
Attributes:
    - You have a straw coat that grants you Basic defense until you are attacked.
    - You will know who your target visits.
    - You cannot be roleblocked.

Investigative Results
Sheriff: You could not find evidence of wrongdoing. Your target seems innocent.
Investigator: Your target could be a Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, Scarecrow, or Potion Master.
Consigliere: Your target enjoys frightening unexpected guests. They must be a Scarecrow.

Goal: Survive to see the Town lose the game.

Victory Conditions:
    You win with the Scarecrows
    You win with the Survivors
    You win with the Witches
    You must kill the Town
    You win with the Mafia
    You win with the Coven
    You win with Serial Killers
    You win with Werewolves
    You win with Arsonists
    You win with Juggernauts
    You win with Vampires
    You win with Plaguebearers
    You win with Pestilence
    You may spare anyone else

Notifications:
    "You have decided to stalk (player)."
    "You scared someone away from your target!"
    "Your target visited (player)!"
    "Your target visited (player1) and (player2)!"

    "An intimidating figure stopped you at your target's door. You were scared away!" (the Hypnotist will have access to use this message)

Mechanics:
    - You will not scare away attackers.
    - You cannot scare away Transporters.
    - You can scare away Ambushers and Arsonists.
Last edited by WaveAqualei on Mon May 23, 2022 5:46 am, edited 6 times in total.
Wave Aqualei
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Re: Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby Soulshade55r » Sat May 21, 2022 1:04 pm

Eh its decent, I feel like personally it wouldn't do much with the TP/jailor issue (will help) but this role can be used as a semi protective.

I have a few small issues.
1. I think it should learn who tried to visit the target aswell.
2. The investigative results are really bad for the role, I think you should change the message to a generic role block message, Theirs no reason not to epically if it shares escort results (this + learning who they scared)
3.Minor but the defence should only apply to scum attacks, witch right now should be like that. Vigilantes should have more counter play to NE's as it stands.
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Spoiler: Town: Jailor
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Re: Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby WaveAqualei » Sat May 21, 2022 4:41 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:Eh its decent, I feel like personally it wouldn't do much with the TP/jailor issue (will help) but this role can be used as a semi protective.

I have a few small issues.
1. I think it should learn who tried to visit the target aswell.
This is being discussed.
2. The investigative results are really bad for the role, I think you should change the message to a generic role block message, Theirs no reason not to epically if it shares escort results (this + learning who they scared)
This is also being discussed. We would've changed the results right away, but we aren't sure if we want Scarecrow to become an evil counterpart to another Accepted Role, which was Bouncer.
3. Minor but the defence should only apply to scum attacks, witch right now should be like that. Vigilantes should have more counter play to NE's as it stands.
I will bring this up.
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Re: Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun May 22, 2022 4:40 pm

WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:Eh its decent, I feel like personally it wouldn't do much with the TP/jailor issue (will help) but this role can be used as a semi protective.

I have a few small issues.
1. I think it should learn who tried to visit the target aswell.
This is being discussed.
2. The investigative results are really bad for the role, I think you should change the message to a generic role block message, Theirs no reason not to epically if it shares escort results (this + learning who they scared)
This is also being discussed. We would've changed the results right away, but we aren't sure if we want Scarecrow to become an evil counterpart to another Accepted Role, which was Bouncer.
3. Minor but the defence should only apply to scum attacks, witch right now should be like that. Vigilantes should have more counter play to NE's as it stands.
I will bring this up.


I think if anything leaving similar functioning messages should be the same.
It's a Role block form and function (I'd argue you could give witches rb messages aswell). Generalising some feedback for more evil fake claims is always a good thing if it works.

On point 1. even if its been discussed doesn't mean it could be debated more, I think it would be useful if point 2. was implemented which has no reason not to.

I'd be interested to learn why a generic roleblock message wouldn't work personally, I feel like instead of creating more confirmability roles with a counterpart is unproductive. This also applies to giving something like "marshal/bouncer" another counter claim in consort. So it works both ways. Some of the reasoning just seems unproductive to actually wanting to introduce roles with some fake claimability.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun May 22, 2022 9:44 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:Eh its decent, I feel like personally it wouldn't do much with the TP/jailor issue (will help) but this role can be used as a semi protective.

I have a few small issues.
1. I think it should learn who tried to visit the target aswell.
This is being discussed.
2. The investigative results are really bad for the role, I think you should change the message to a generic role block message, Theirs no reason not to epically if it shares escort results (this + learning who they scared)
This is also being discussed. We would've changed the results right away, but we aren't sure if we want Scarecrow to become an evil counterpart to another Accepted Role, which was Bouncer.
3. Minor but the defence should only apply to scum attacks, witch right now should be like that. Vigilantes should have more counter play to NE's as it stands.
I will bring this up.


I think if anything leaving similar functioning messages should be the same.
It's a Role block form and function (I'd argue you could give witches rb messages aswell). Generalising some feedback for more evil fake claims is always a good thing if it works.

On point 1. even if its been discussed doesn't mean it could be debated more, I think it would be useful if point 2. was implemented which has no reason not to.

I'd be interested to learn why a generic roleblock message wouldn't work personally, I feel like instead of creating more confirmability roles with a counterpart is unproductive. This also applies to giving something like "marshal/bouncer" another counter claim in consort. So it works both ways. Some of the reasoning just seems unproductive to actually wanting to introduce roles with some fake claimability.

Okay, this role was edited to be exactly like Bouncer. We are waiting for Widget to edit Bouncer's Investigator Results and Notifications where they match with Scarecrow's.
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Re: Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby Brilliand » Mon May 23, 2022 2:57 am

Soulshade55r wrote:It's a Role block form and function (I'd argue you could give witches rb messages aswell).


Roleblocks, rolestops and controls are three mechanically different things. There's a case for not telling players which one happened, of course, but that strikes me as a sweeping change to how ToS does things.

I find the comparison with jail interesting, because your action failing when visiting a jailed target is in many ways a "rolestop", but that comes with the odd quirk that the target is in many cases told which action someone tried and failed to use on them.
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Re: Scarecrow (Neutral Evil) | TG Balancer Adjustments

Postby Soulshade55r » Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:56 am

Brilliand wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:It's a Role block form and function (I'd argue you could give witches rb messages aswell).


Roleblocks, rolestops and controls are three mechanically different things. There's a case for not telling players which one happened, of course, but that strikes me as a sweeping change to how ToS does things.

I find the comparison with jail interesting, because your action failing when visiting a jailed target is in many ways a "rolestop", but that comes with the odd quirk that the target is in many cases told which action someone tried and failed to use on them.


Controls are mechanically different

rolestops are just roleblocks but when you visit a target, It doesn't actually need to be known if its either or the person should know is that they couldn't perform their actions. Theirs literally no reason for them to act like two separate things, you can also apply this to jailing so all roles have this general "Prevented from taking any action" message

Controls now that you don't learn anything, Imo should be somewhat treated the same, the only situation where it might be a bit weird if vigi is forced to shoot someone. I do think vigi/witch need a update on how they interact with each other.

If you wanted to make a generic message for all types of actions just make a
"You were disrupted last night message" increases a lot of fake claim ability which is good
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
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Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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