2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 4

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 4

Postby Cookazoo2 » Sat May 08, 2021 10:07 am

You may vote in the Possessor vs. Elemental matchup until .

General Rules:
  • All forum and Discord rules apply to this competition.
  • The competition is expected to last around 2 months, so please do not nominate a role unless you are certain you can stay active.
  • Anyone who nominates a role must post at least once every 24 hours during the appropriate debate phase(s).
  • Please do not use the hosts' mod colors. This (#008000) will be Cook's. This (#D85800) will be Alex's.
  • Anyone who violates any of the above rules will receive a warning. Multiple warnings will result in being replaced out and banned from voting if applicable.
  • Any user who personally attacks another user will be banned from the competition without warning.

Format:
  • The competition has three phases: nomination, selection, and elimination.
  • During the nomination phase, participants nominate roles that they want in the tournament.
  • Roles are then voted on, and the eight most popular roles advance to the elimination round.
  • The elimination phase consists of a single-elimination bracket.
  • The winning role receives a prize.

Nomination Phase:
  • The nomination phase will last for 168 hours and will end at or until enough roles have been nominated.
  • Anyone may nominate any number of roles.
  • You may not nominate buffs, nerfs, reworks, factions, joke roles or roles that have ever been tested in the TG.
  • You may nominate roles by typing /nominate [role] in this thread or in the #role-idea-contest channel of the RI/TG Discord.
  • If you wish to nominate a role anonymously, please either PM me or Alex on the forums or DM me or Alex in Discord.
  • Please include a link to any role that you nominate.
  • You may nominate another user's role, but you must have permission from that person.

Selection Phase:
  • The nomination phase will last for 168 hours and will end at (TBA).
  • Roles must be judged as they appeared at the beginning of the selection phase (a copy of all rolecards will be posted on this thread).
  • Anyone may vote for any number of roles, including roles they they created or nominated.
  • You may vote for roles by typing /vote [role] in this thread or in the #role-idea-contest channel of the RI/TG Discord.
  • If you wish to vote anonymously, please either PM me on the forums or DM me in Discord.
  • The top two Town roles, two informed minority (Mafia/Coven) roles, two non-factional Neutral (NB/NE) roles, and two factional Neutral (NK/NC) roles will qualify for the bracket.
  • No more than one role nominated by a given user may advance to the elimination phase (participants will be asked which role they prefer if necessary).
  • Ties will be broken by choosing the first role to reach the necessary number of votes.

Elimination Phase:
  • Roles will be grouped in the bracket based on alignment.
  • Each matchup will consist of one 48 hour debate phase and one 48 hour voting phase.
  • Phases may be extended if necessary.
  • Only one matchup will go on at a given time.
  • During the debate phase, only participants who nominated a role in the matchup may post on the forums.
  • Contestants may explain why their role is balanced or why their opponent's role is unbalanced, but personal attacks of any kind are not tolerated.
  • Anyone may post on the forums during the voting phase either to vote for a role or to discuss the roles being debated.
  • Anyone may discuss roles during either phase in the #role-idea-contest channel of the RI/TG Discord.
  • You may vote for roles by typing /vote [role] in this thread or in the #role-idea-contest channel of the RI/TG Discord.
  • If you wish to vote anonymously, please either PM me on the forums or DM me in Discord.
  • Ties will be broken by choosing the first role to reach the necessary number of votes.

Prizes:
  • The winning role will automatically be tested in the TG.
  • The person who nominates or creates the winning role will receive a custom Discord role.
  • Additional prizes TBA.

Some of this may be subject to change.


Participating Roles:
Duelist by sunbird1002
Spark Generator by Brilliand
Associate by superdog551
Silencer by runningwiththepower
Altruist by DumWasTaken
Servant by Ezradekezra
Possessor by DiamondRanger8
Elemental by WaveAqualei

Votes:
Possessor 0
Elemental 0

Bracket:


Ignore the seeds. The number to the left of each match represents the order in which the matches will take place.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby Ezradekezra » Sat May 08, 2021 10:28 am

I nominate Firefighter
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby alex1234321 » Sat May 08, 2021 11:26 am

Ezradekezra wrote:I nominate Firefighter

Cookazoo2 wrote:You may nominate roles by typing /nominate [role] in this thread or in the #role-idea-contest channel of the RI/TG Discord.


Aside from not nominating the role correctly, you may not nominate joke roles. The OP has been updated to reflect this.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby Brilliand » Mon May 10, 2021 1:36 am

Why this when the TG already exists?

Ah well, whatever.

/nominate Spark Generator
/nominate Life Trader
/nominate Warmonger / War, Horseman of the Apocalypse
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby alex1234321 » Mon May 10, 2021 5:11 pm

Brilliand wrote:Why this when the TG already exists?

Ah well, whatever.

/nominate Spark Generator
/nominate Life Trader
/nominate Warmonger / War, Horseman of the Apocalypse


Mostly just because head-to-head debates are fun. But also I expect the discussion to be more targeted here than in a TG poll, where people mostly just vote for roles that they like and there isn't much of an opportunity to advocate for your role or criticize someone else's.

We aren't letting TG roles in because that would take away the largest prize and also those roles have been debated quite a bit. But now that I think about it that would likely encourage participation and improve the quality of the roles. What do you think?
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby Brilliand » Mon May 10, 2021 5:22 pm

alex1234321 wrote:We aren't letting TG roles in because that would take away the largest prize and also those roles have been debated quite a bit. But now that I think about it that would likely encourage participation and improve the quality of the roles. What do you think?


On the one hand, participation is probably the most pressing concern right now; on the other hand, not very many roles have actually been tested in TG, so it isn't too burdensome.

I say leave the rules as they are. You're still allowing roles that have been entered into TG voting, after all, just not roles that have reached testing.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby DumWasTaken » Thu May 13, 2021 7:01 pm

/nominate Caretaker
/nominate Altruist
/nominate Agent
My best role ideas (yes the role cards are clickable):

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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby superdog551 » Thu May 13, 2021 7:08 pm

/nominate Associate
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby Ezradekezra » Sat May 15, 2021 1:58 am

/nominate Servant
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby sunbird1002 » Sat May 22, 2021 7:39 pm

/nominate my most recent two year old role idea Soothsayer
/nominate Duelist
Last edited by sunbird1002 on Sun May 23, 2021 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby superdog551 » Sat May 22, 2021 8:18 pm

If this is still open I will also /nominate Oracle
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

My Roles:
Charmer
Oracle
Associate

In-game my name is Jay
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby sunbird1002 » Sun May 23, 2021 5:45 pm

Currently only 5 people have nominated. Lets get this up to 8!

(Also 'sumbird1002' suMbird? Really?)
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby runningwiththepower » Sat May 29, 2021 11:25 am

I would like to nominate my viewtopic.php?f=27&t=116667 Silencer ^^
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:08 am

Only one more person needs to nominate a role for this to actually start!
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:49 am

Nominations are closed! Due to the lack of participation, we will bypass the selection phase and each person will represent one of their roles. There are multiple combinations of roles that result in our desired 2 Town/2 informed minority/2 non-factional Neutral/2 factional Neutral mix. I messages everyone on Discord who can choose between roles they want to represent. If you did not receive a message, it means there is only one possible role that you can use. The first match will begin immediately after all roles are decided.

I am currently waiting on responses from Brilliand and Superdog551.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || INTERMISSION

Postby Ezradekezra » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:19 pm

(has this been cancelled?)
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || ACCEPTING

Postby Brilliand » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:39 am

alex1234321 wrote:I am currently waiting on responses from Brilliand and Superdog551.


Whoa, how did I miss this? I didn't notice this post until Ezra posted.

...hi. I'm not really clear on what you want from me. No message on Discord that I can see.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || INTERMISSION

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:14 am

Ezradekezra wrote:(has this been cancelled?)

No it's still happening. I've just been busy and lazy. I'll start it today.

Brilliand wrote:
alex1234321 wrote:I am currently waiting on responses from Brilliand and Superdog551.


Whoa, how did I miss this? I didn't notice this post until Ezra posted.

...hi. I'm not really clear on what you want from me. No message on Discord that I can see.

Dw this was from a while ago when I asked you and superdog to choose which roles you wanted to represent. That's been sorted out.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:17 pm

The first match starts now between Duelist and Spark Generator! You have 48 hours to debate the roles. Only Brilliand and sunbird are allowed to speak in the thread during this time, but anyone may talk in the Discord channel.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby sunbird1002 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:13 pm

Greetings. Sunbird here. With the job of both defending Duelist and attacking the chaotic Town role of Spark Generator. May the best role win!

Why should Duelist be in the game.
1. A fair spin on Town Protective.
Spoiler: This role gives up some of its protective capabilities in order to kill, meaning it is placed in a very unique spot in the Town Protective line up. With the possibility of the upside of a Doctor and Bodyguard chain, the role is balanced by putting the responsibility of finding scum on the player. The downside of this role, the player's death, balances this potentially huge upside.

2. Skill Testing
Spoiler: Should you guard someone this night, or can you afford two more duels to be safe? Who should you duel? Who should you guard? This role forces questions from every player who plays it. And the better player will make better decisions and plays. You could say that is true for every role. But the subtleties of this role go beyond the decisions of a Doctor or Bodyguard in a TPLO meta. It separates great players from good ones, and having a high skill ceiling in a role is of no detriment to it.

3. Balanced with Doctor and Bodyguard in mind.
Spoiler: This role is of around equal power level to both the other Town Protective roles (in classic Town of Salem.)
Bodyguard: 1 Mafia/1 Town
Doctor: 0 Mafia/0 Town
Duelist: 1 Madia/0 Town (dueled) or 0 Mafia/1 Town (undueled).
Considering that one can duel around half the town in 3 nights (and that perhaps even less is needed with players with good reads), it becomes clear that the condition for the best case scenario is difficult, but not impossible!


I have made my argument for why Duelist should win this contest. Now, to criticize my opponent's role Spark Generator.

1. A Self Confirmable Town role. Yay fun...
Spoiler: The most glaring issue is the damned message. "You have gotten a hot potato!" or whatever it will be will instantly confirm the Spark Generator to the town. Am I not the only one who thinks a self confirming civilian is both extremely difficult and unfun to play against. It eats up space on the precious Town Killing slots in an averaged ranked game. You might argue that Hypnotist exists. It does. But so does Spy. And the chances of having a Hypnotist and non Spy game is 10%. So in 90% of games this thing is confirmed D2. Perhaps we should have something that the majority of the time cannot be confirmed so easily? Perhaps that could help Mafia?

2. This role does not work in the format of Town of Salem
Spoiler: I'm sure in a long forum mafia game where you have hours to chat and read others, perhaps Spark Generator can work. You can send the potato to a Mafioso's door and they realise they have been played. However, forum mafia is vastly different to Town of Salem. With a 45 second discussion phase, god bless anyone using that time to formulate a strategy with the potato man. It creates chaos in the Town, and quite often it can be seen as a detriment because its attracting attention away from important information. Hence, in an average Town of Salem game, this role is 1. confirmable, and 2. not going to be played skillfully, because the town cannot slow down and formulate a plan with this new ticking timebomb of death.

3. What's the ability for again?
Spoiler: As a Town Killing, why can this role kill only two members of the Mafia, the Mafioso or Godfather? Almost any other Mafia role can sidestep this Town Killing. If you leave a potato at someone's house N2, they will explode at earliest on the next night. That's a whole night to wait which could have been better utilised by a Vigilante.

4. The Skill of the Spark Generator has little significance
Spoiler: The confirmed Civilian cannot control their own ability. They could suggest where it could be used, but whether its taken up by the bomb carrier is another story. If anyone does have a moment to talk about the bomb, the Spark Generator's skill level isn't life or death. Someone else can take over. Unlike Duelist, the individual choices matter less when you give a bomb and just watch it get passed around,

You are incentivised to give bombs out early
Spoiler: If you don't, then the Spark Generator loses their confirmability. The bomb takes at least a full night to blow up, so getting it out too late means you leave Mafia alive for longer (unlike Vigilante). However, this strategy itself is a detriment. It swings between killing Mafioso and killing Medium N2. With Viigilante its not that bad. Its the shooter's fault. But for the Spark Generator, their M1 tactic is effectively random. It makes the role incredibly swingy, and because it requires not much skill (because honestly any decision you make for where you start the hot potato chain is going to be so watered down to the end of it that its insignificant), when it swings it just leaves a sour taste in the mouth for all involved.

Even if I think the ability of this role is detrimental to town, this does not cancel out the fact that at base line its a N1 self confirming civillian in most games. Its unhealthy for a role like this to exist in game, and hence this is why I believe Spark Generator should not go to the next round.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby Brilliand » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:59 am

You kidding, I've got to argue against Duelist? I love Duelist!

Duelist is legit better than Spark Generator. In fact, it's already well on its way to getting voted into the Testing Grounds in the normal fashion, tied with one other role for second place in a vote where the top four roles get in. It will most likely be tested in the Testing Grounds before this contest is even over.

Is that grounds for a disqualification? (Checks the rules...) Nope. Drat. In fact before the contest I expressed approval of that being allowed.

(I'd like to concede this matchup.)
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby sunbird1002 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:39 am

What's the hold up? Sadly this debate wasn't as fiery as I expected. Both roles have their strengths and weaknesses, and people peppering holes into my role is just as useful for me as it is for them.
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Name: Harvey Greater
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Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
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Most recent Role Idea:
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby Brilliand » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:51 pm

sunbird1002 wrote:What's the hold up? Sadly this debate wasn't as fiery as I expected. Both roles have their strengths and weaknesses, and people peppering holes into my role is just as useful for me as it is for them.


Well yes, Duelist as written does have the problems that it's 1) underpowered overall and 2) highly likely to be useless earlygame and oppressive lategame, while Spark Generator creates an interesting game of figuring out who visited who assuming the total number of confirmable roles in the Town is low enough. But I don't feel like arguing that Spark Generator is better than Duelist overall when I don't believe it myself.
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby sunbird1002 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:21 pm

I do want a role to be balanced, skill-testing, and fun, in that order. I don't want to create a role which can create a bad experience to those playing it or against it. The whole 'visiting scum before they attack' does make a role which scales in power as the game goes on, and I'm not sure if this is solvable.
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Name: Harvey Greater
Suspicion Level: High
Favourite Occupations: Transporter, Investigator, Jester
Least Favourite Occupation: Mafioso, Consort, Escort

Most recent Role Idea:
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Re: 2021 Role Ideas Championship || QUARTERFINALS 1

Postby alex1234321 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:11 am

Sorry about the delay. The first match has ended with Brilliand's concession. Duelist has advanced! The next round will be between Altruist and Servant. It will start in just under an hour and continue for 48 hours after that.
#SaveTheTG

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