Alchemist (Neutral Evil)

[alex1234321]

This was my first role idea ever, exactly five years ago. I decided to try to remake it into a more balanced form.

Role Name:
Alchemist

Role Alignment:
Neutral Evil

Abilities:
Give your potion to someone, making them forget their identity. (3 uses)

Attributes:
Players who receive your potion become factional Amnesiacs.
If you target a Neutral, your ability fails and you do not consume a potion.
You have a mystical barrier that grants you Basic defense until you are attacked.

Goal:
Survive to see the Town lose the game.

Win Conditions:
Same as Witch.

Additional Information:
A factional Amnesiac is an Amnesiac that can only remember graveyard roles from their faction and has the same win conditions as the rest of their faction. There is no message when the player remembers their role. The rolecard shows the word Amnesiac with the color of their faction similar to Town Traitor. Informed minority Amnesiacs can still communicate with members of their faction at night.

If a solo Godfather or Mafioso is given a potion, a different Mafia member is promoted to Mafioso as if the player died. If there are no other living Mafia members, the player can remember the role of a dead Mafia member and be promoted to Mafioso if necessary. If there was only one Mafia or Coven member at the start of the game, the player is roleblocked but does not become an Amnesiac.

[Ezradekezra]

This would probably end up backfiring waaaay too often tbh

Maybe if it hits Town, the Alchemist should be able to choose which role the target becomes?

[alex1234321]

This would probably end up backfiring waaaay too often tbh

Maybe if it hits Town, the Alchemist should be able to choose which role the target becomes?

That's true. I was thinking that the purpose would be to punish powerful Townies. But the more likely scenario is that the Alchemist wouldn't want to target anyone after any semi-important Town role dies. Do you think it should only be able to choose among graveyard roles or should it be able to make the player into any Town role that it wants?

[runningwiththepower]

Alternatively, you could have the Alchemist transform Townies into Survivors////Witches if u wanna make sure it doesn't backfire (Amnesiac has Remembered Mayor!) Since Survs are Neutral and can go either way, that would be a good happy medium

[alex1234321]

Alternatively, you could have the Alchemist transform Townies into Survivors////Witches if u wanna make sure it doesn't backfire (Amnesiac has Remembered Mayor!) Since Survs are Neutral and can go either way, that would be a good happy medium

The problem with that is that it could effectively create a second kill for Mafia since you're turning a Townie into someone who can vote either way. That would also give it the problem that all conversion roles have, which is that players might avoid helping their faction and hope that an Alchemist turns them into a Survivor and gives evils an easy win. In a 9-4-2 rolelist, the Alchemist would be able to convert 3 Townies into Survs to give evils a majority. The Townies might even encourage it and ask to get converted. Even with a 10 Town rolelist, which I prefer, turning three Townies into Survivors gives scum a majority.

[superdog551]

I don't really like roles that can take abilities away, though this is better since the effect isn't permanent. It would definitely be negative utility in some scenarios because the amne could remember a super powerful town role. I like Ezra's idea of choosing their new role, the only problem is that it would probably choose a medium every time... Maybe its ability should just be to turn people into mediums

[alex1234321]

I don't really like roles that can take abilities away, though this is better since the effect isn't permanent. It would definitely be negative utility in some scenarios because the amne could remember a super powerful town role. I like Ezra's idea of choosing their new role, the only problem is that it would probably choose a medium every time... Maybe its ability should just be to turn people into mediums

Maybe they can’t choose the same role for more than one person?

And you wouldn’t want to make multiple mediums since they would be able to confirm each other.

[superdog551]

I don't really like roles that can take abilities away, though this is better since the effect isn't permanent. It would definitely be negative utility in some scenarios because the amne could remember a super powerful town role. I like Ezra's idea of choosing their new role, the only problem is that it would probably choose a medium every time... Maybe its ability should just be to turn people into mediums

Maybe they can’t choose the same role for more than one person?

And you wouldn’t want to make multiple mediums since they would be able to confirm each other.

I was only joking about turning everyone into mediums, though there aren't many roles that this would want to turn someone into. But limiting it to using the role once could be good, it would take a bit of skill to know whether 1. You aren't making the person more useful by changing their role and 2. You aren't turning them into the role they already are. I think it could work, maybe more tweaking is necessary though.

[Ezradekezra]

Here's my suggestion:

If the ability is used on a Townie, then the Alchemist gets to pick a Town role to reroll them into, and the Alchemist can pick any Town role, regardless of whether or not there is an instance of it in the graveyard. If the Alchemist fails to pick a role the next day, the Townie becomes a factional Amnesiac until it remembers a Town role.

If the ability is used on a member of the Mafia or Coven, then the target is able to pick another role from the same alignment to reroll themself into. This ability is available each phase until it's used, and unlike the Town factional Amnesiac, it can't be roleblocked.

If the ability is used on a Gofather, Mafioso, Coven Leader, or Medusa, there is no conversion effect and the shot is refunded.

If the ability is used on a neutral, there is no conversion effect and the shot is refunded.

If a unique role is chosen when an instance of it is already alive, then the conversion will fail, and the game will proceed as if no role had been picked.

Regardless of the successfulness of the conversion, the Alchemist Consig checks its target.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

What happens if the target is protected by a bg, doc, crus or trapper

Or if the target self healed or alerted or smth

[alex1234321]

What happens if the target is protected by a bg, doc, crus or trapper

Or if the target self healed or alerted or smth

Since the role has so much potential to backfire, I currently am treating it as a regular visit as opposed to an attack. It can still be killed by a Crusader normally.

Here's my suggestion:

If the ability is used on a Townie, then the Alchemist gets to pick a Town role to reroll them into, and the Alchemist can pick any Town role, regardless of whether or not there is an instance of it in the graveyard. If the Alchemist fails to pick a role the next day, the Townie becomes a factional Amnesiac until it remembers a Town role.

If the ability is used on a member of the Mafia or Coven, then the target is able to pick another role from the same alignment to reroll themself into. This ability is available each phase until it's used, and unlike the Town factional Amnesiac, it can't be roleblocked.

If the ability is used on a Gofather, Mafioso, Coven Leader, or Medusa, there is no conversion effect and the shot is refunded.

If the ability is used on a neutral, there is no conversion effect and the shot is refunded.

If a unique role is chosen when an instance of it is already alive, then the conversion will fail, and the game will proceed as if no role had been picked.

Regardless of the successfulness of the conversion, the Alchemist Consig checks its target.

I like this idea, but there are a few issues that I can see. It could be complicated to understand the role since you have players that can't choose their role, players who can choose within their alignment, and players that can choose from the graveyard. I was thinking of letting it pick a target and a non-unique Town role. If the target is Town, then they will immediately be converted into that role. There are a couple of options for how to handle it if the target is scum. It could either make them into factional Amnesiacs or have the ability fail completely. Personally, I think the ability should fail with the Alchemist losing a charge and not receiving a notification. That way we don't have to worry about interactions with GF/Maf. The Alchemist is still penalized with the loss of a charge and doesn't receive any investigative info, which is ideal for an NE imo. But if people prefer do Consig check the targets that's fine as well.

What do you think about those changes?