Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Suggest new roles or changes to current roles for the game here.

What do you think of these reworks?

Spy Balanced
1
6%
Framer Balanced
5
31%
Spy Unbalanced
2
13%
Framer Unbalanced
0
No votes
Better than current Spy
3
19%
Better than current Framer
5
31%
 
Total votes : 16

Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:54 am

The Spy along with the Framer are the roles that almost everyone can agree on that desperately need a rework. I've made my own rework on the spy and have aimed to keep it true to its name. This Spy will be able to sneak into one player's house each night; and will receive vital information. The Spy may choose to place a bug at this player's house, receiving important information on the following nights. I've also come up with my own rework to the Framer. This rework will make the role a lot more fun to play and will stop Framer from being completely useless.

Abilities:
-Each night sneak into a players house
-Place a bug at a players house

Attributes:
Sneaking into a players house
-When you sneak into a player's house you may choose to place a bug
-You will be aware of if your target was at home or not
-You will be informed of any non-town roles that visit your target


Bugging a Player
-Targets house will remain bugged
-You can only have 3 players houses bugged at a time
-You must sneak back into a players house to remove a bug
-At the end of each night; You will be informed of all alignments that visit your bugged targets

Notifications:
Sneaking:
-Deodat Lawson was away from home tonight
-A Consigliere and a Witch visited your targets house tonight

Bugs:
Giles Corey was visited by the Mafia and at least 1 Arsonist
John Hathorne was visited by the Town
Cotton Mather was visited by the Vampires, Neutral Evil, and at least 1 Serial Killer

Possible Ideas:
-Should Spy be able to see bugged targets whispers?
-Bugs limited to two
-Sneaking informs the spy of all roles (including town) which visited
-Spy still receives feedback of what happened to bugged targets?

Framer

Mafia Deception

Abilities:
-Target a player, contaminating their crime scene if they die that night
-Leave false evidence behind of another player
-Conceal your own documents

Attributes
-You may contaminate three crime scenes
Contaminating a Crime Scene
-You MAY destroy all evidence of how that player died
-By contaminating a crime scene, you MAY change how it appears that your target died

Leaving False Evidence
-When you contaminate a crime scene, you will provide false evidence of one selected player
-If that player is investigated by a Sheriff he will appear as suspicious
-If that player is investigated by an Investigator, his results will be shown as your chosen results

Concealing Documents:
-During the night you may conceal your documents
-You may pick a role which you wish to be revealed as upon your death

Additional Information:

At night, this role may visit a player; If that player dies that night the Framer may contaminate the crime scene, eradicating any clue as to the true cause of that player's death. The Framer may change the outcome of how it appeared that player died. Everything from "shot by a Veteran" to "obliterated by the horseman of the apocolypse" The Framer will also leave a bunch of false evidence behind of another player of his chosen. If a Sheriff or Investigator decides to look into the FRAMED player, they may find evidence linking this player to a crime.

Also, I believe the previous Disguiser was underpowered and was never functional enough as a role on its own, so I've implemented it in this role. This role has a passive ability, (which they can change at any time) to change the role they appear as on their deathbed. Creating even more deception among the town.
Last edited by MarsGodofWar on Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:48 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Spy Rework [Town Power]

Postby Cookazoo2 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:37 am

what if the bugged player is killed, is the bug gone?
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Re: Spy Rework [Town Power]

Postby MarsGodofWar » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:26 am

Yes the bug is effectively destroyed and can't be reused. Can the player who said this is overpowered say why? I would like to use the concept of Spy sneaking into a players house and being able to bug a few targets. But I am more then happy to change the information the Spy receives when hes sneaked into a players house and the reports he receives after he's bugged a player.
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:58 am

Added Framer
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby CloverPlayah » Sat May 01, 2021 3:02 am

Looking at all of this, these reworks just sound.. absolutely fantastic, I can't lie there.
You can imagine the potential synergy this new Framer can have with roles like Forger and Janitor, also increasing the amount of Mafia Deception roles that can, well, deceive the town instead of just a specific subalignment (Disguiser still does it but it's a line of defense in a way). This also allows the Framer to truly be a topic of discussion in the town instead of just a shabby defense when a Mafia is caught by a Sheriff, and can allow Mafia members to get away with specific mislynches they lead.

Not to mention, the Spy rework will relieve a lot of stress off of Mafia and allow them to make more plays and not be caught out so easily by just a passive person who just sees what they do each night. So it's definitely a step in the right direction, same for Framer, with reasons listed above.

The Spy rework is also an interesting take, still keeping tabs on visits of alignments and able to operate without the existence of Mafia/Coven. My only problem with it is that it should have 2 bugs, like you suggested, so it can't gather intel at SUCH a rapid pace; even if it takes 3 nights to set up.

Other than that, Spy is in a subalignment called Town Power. This is for roles like Jailor and Mayor from experience, which can put more organization into the mix for creating rolelists, similar to SC2 Mafia.

Personally love this rework, would love to see it in action. :D
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby alex1234321 » Sat May 01, 2021 8:26 am

I like the Spy rework, but I would remove the whisper receiving mechanic. This would allow it to easily confirm itself and prevent evil roles from wanted to whisper each other. The Mafia notification could fix the second part, but then you're basically choosing when to remove a core mechanic from a player, which isn't something that should ever happen. Other than that, I like it. I don't think Mafia members seeing if they're bugged would have a large impact beyond whispers, so it mostly seems unnecessary to me.

The Framer rework looks good too. It effectively incorporates many elements of existing role ideas that aren't strong enough to be viable on their own. The one change I would make would be to allow it to fool the other TI roles.
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Mon May 03, 2021 3:52 am

Hey Thanks Clover

alex1234321 wrote:I like the Spy rework, but I would remove the whisper receiving mechanic. This would allow it to easily confirm itself and prevent evil roles from wanted to whisper each other. The Mafia notification could fix the second part, but then you're basically choosing when to remove a core mechanic from a player, which isn't something that should ever happen. Other than that, I like it. I don't think Mafia members seeing if they're bugged would have a large impact beyond whispers, so it mostly seems unnecessary to me.

The Framer rework looks good too. It effectively incorporates many elements of existing role ideas that aren't strong enough to be viable on their own. The one change I would make would be to allow it to fool the other TI roles.


Ill fix the Spy up and remove the whispering mechanic. Should the information that the spy receives from sneaking and bugged players be changed in any way?

Also, the Framer rework deceives Sheriff and Investigator. Making it deceive Lookout/Detective would be a bit overpowered wouldnt it? Seeing as Disguiser does that
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Fri May 07, 2021 5:02 am

Thoughts on these reworks?
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Thu May 13, 2021 4:44 am

So Framer works by contaminating a crime scene; if the player he targets dies the Framer can change the way it appears that player died, everything from shot by a Veteran and obliterated by Pestilence Horseman of the Apocolypse. The Framer may also leave false evidence behind of another player, that target will be effectively framed. This will work as a two target action like the Witch. First target selected will be the crime scene he wishes to contaminate and the second target will be the framed target. After these options have been selected a menu will pop up (like hypno) and the Framer will be able to select from a list of possible deaths. The Framer will also have two passive buttons which he can select at night (like those buttons that a doc or bg has to self protect). One of these buttons will change the Framers role of which he wishes to be revealed at when he dies; this can be changed at any time during the night but will only confirm itself at the end of the night (so role won't change if he's roleblocked and shot by a Vigilante). The second button he can push will be the Investigative results he wants his Framed target to appear as. This is surely better and far more useful then the original Framer. Thoughts?
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby ParanoidVigilante » Thu May 27, 2021 12:55 am

Better then the current framer thats for sure
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:07 pm

Thoughts?
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Re: Spy [Town Power] & Framer [Mafia Deception] Reworks

Postby MarsGodofWar » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:02 am

Bump. Best Framer rework suggested by far. Suggestions for Spy? Spy rework is a decent concept, but may need a few changes
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