Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

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Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:13 pm

Role Name:
-Sheriff

Role Alignment:
-Town (investigative)

Abilities:
-Interrogate someone each night to see if they commited a crime

Attributes:
-You will know if your target commited the crime you selected

Notifications:
Your target is guilty of [crime]
Your target is innocent.

Goal:
-Lynch every criminal and evildoer

Win Conditions:
-Same as town

Special Attributes:
-None

Investigator Results:
Sheriff - Umm, lets leave this blank
Investigator - Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, poisoner
Consigliere - Same as before


Additional Information:

Possible crimes are

Murder, if your target performed an attack of any kind, they will appear as guilty

Tresspasing, if your target's action produced any kind of notification on their target, they will appear as guilty

Falsification: forger, framer, consigliere, hypnotist, consort, potion master, hex master will appear as guilty



Feedback? Ideas to improve? Is it too similar to invest?
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby superdog551 » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:00 pm

I don't feel like sheriff needs an overhaul tbh. This turns it into a super weak invest that only works sometimes which I don't think is much of an upgrade
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby SilverCruz » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:36 pm

"a super weak invest that only works sometimes"

Like it already is?

There is never a situation where Investigators are incapable of finding any information. The same is not true for Sheriffs.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby superdog551 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:35 am

SilverCruz wrote:"a super weak invest that only works sometimes"

Like it already is?

There is never a situation where Investigators are incapable of finding any information. The same is not true for Sheriffs.



Sheriff is not a bad role. It can instantly confirm evils. This version can't do that, get's an even broader list of roles, and only does so if the target is one of a list of specific roles.
Edit: Examined the role a bit further, I misunderstood the mechanic. The role is better than I thought, I can actually see it working as a change.
joaodasalmas wrote:Abilities: You can reveal yourself as the King Potato, and now you can't be voted.

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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby SilverCruz » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:06 am

And when there's nothing but a Godfather and Witch left, the Sheriff is useless at night, while in Classic its hard counter is static.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby MarsGodofWar » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:47 am

Sheriff (cop) is a classic Mafia role that has been around since the beginning of the game itself. It has one basic function, find evils. I would suggest allowing Sheriff to find the alignment of evils instead. So all framed targets and non-disguised Mafia members will appear as "Your target is a member of the Mafia!" Serial Killer will appear as "Your target is a Serial Killer" You can already tell the two apart in the current game as Mafia will appear as "Suspicious" and Serial Killer will appear as "seems Suspicious". But new players sometimes don't pick up on this. It would make more sense for it to just downright said "Your target is a member of the Mafia" imo.

Also, a way to buff Sheriff would be allowing them to also detective Neutral roles and Witches. "Your target is evil" I'd keep Arsonist, Pestilence & Godfather immune to Sheriff, but all other non-town roles Sheriff could be able to detect their alignment. This would make Sheriff way more of a threat and evils may actually consider dealing with Sheriff claims.

I've previously suggested a role the same as your Sheriff rework called Detective.

There needs to be more of a variety of crimes and unsuccessfully performing an attack on someone is called "attempted murder" it is not "murder".

Role Name: Detective


Role Alignment: Town Investigative


Abilities:
-Investigate a player each night and find out if they have committed any crimes

Attributes:
-You can detect Detection immune targets

Special Attributes:

Possible Crimes:
Trespassing - Any role which has illegally visited another persons house
Murder - Any role which has killed someone
Attempted Murder - Any role which has tried to kill someone and failed
Corruption - Mayor, Blackmailer, Executioner


Just a basic overview, really need more roles added to vary up the crimes. Possible crimes could include Conspiracy, Disturbing the Peace, Soliciting, Forgery, Kidnapping, Graverobbing and Extortion
Last edited by MarsGodofWar on Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:30 am

Sheriff is the most basic role (besides Cit/Goon) in Mafia. There's no need to overcomplicate it and its strength can easily be changed by modifying detection immunity.

Your suggestion itself seems even weaker than Sheriff to me. It can see more specific roles of players, but it doesn't detect people who choose not to use their abilities. Also more Town roles appear as guilty. Especially earlier on, it doesn't matter whether you lynch a Mafioso or a Forger, you just want to hit scum.

If it was a straight Town/not Town detector with no Mafia roles to deceive it, it would be brokenly OP. The role would be able to literally confirm someone as Town or scum. Adding Framer and Disguiser weakens it considerably, but those roles don't appear in the majority of games. So they're enough to create some doubt, but the role wouldn't be UP. Maybe you could give Godfather detection immunity, but even that isn't mandatory.
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby Golden44 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:00 am

I think the following roles should lose detection immunity:

- Witch
- All NKs (doused players will show up as suspicious)
- Vampires
- Pestilence (not plaguebearer)- it doesn't make sense for the sheriff to not know when they are interrogating pestilence
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby MarsGodofWar » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:33 am

alex1234321 wrote:Sheriff is the most basic role (besides Cit/Goon) in Mafia. There's no need to overcomplicate it and its strength can easily be changed by modifying detection immunity.

Your suggestion itself seems even weaker than Sheriff to me. It can see more specific roles of players, but it doesn't detect people who choose not to use their abilities. Also more Town roles appear as guilty. Especially earlier on, it doesn't matter whether you lynch a Mafioso or a Forger, you just want to hit scum.

If it was a straight Town/not Town detector with no Mafia roles to deceive it, it would be brokenly OP. The role would be able to literally confirm someone as Town or scum. Adding Framer and Disguiser weakens it considerably, but those roles don't appear in the majority of games. So they're enough to create some doubt, but the role wouldn't be UP. Maybe you could give Godfather detection immunity, but even that isn't mandatory.


Yes, Sheriff should stay as a simple role that invests a target to find their alignment. Nerf the detection immunitys a bit would make this more of a valid role that people may actually want to kill. I usually ignore Sheriff claims in ranked.

I think this rework works better as a new role but needs to be refined and balanced a bit more. It's hard to determine which crimes to add, how many crimes and which roles will have which crimes. I would suggest that this role can detect crimes on Detection immune targets.

Players who don't use their abilities are missing out. All abilities should be useful and useable. There needs to be a balanced risk to reward ratio of using your abilities as scum. Mafia members shouldn't downright avoid using their abilities because of one role.

Your last paragraph makes no sense.
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Re: Sheriff overhaul, post ideas to improve

Postby alex1234321 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 6:45 am

MarsGodofWar wrote:Your last paragraph makes no sense.


How so? If there was a role that saw "Town" or "not Town" for one person every night, wouldn't it be OP? It would literally confirm someone as Town or scum every night with zero room for doubt. The point I'm making is that the concept of a role that sees people's alignments isn't necessarily UP. So it's possible to buff Sheriff into a average power role by giving its results less doubt. You don't need to completely overhaul it.
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