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[7aman4013]

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[Mikemk]

Too complicated, and framer doesn't need a nerf

[xTiffanyyx]

Too complicated, and framer doesn't need a nerf

this is definitely a big buff, not a nerf. instead of having all results show "framer jest vamp", you're guaranteed to frame the TI's target and have a bigger variety than "framer jest vamp".

the idea seems pretty cool to me. it'll definitely provide a big boost to mafia winrate, which in turn makes players less likely to leave at the start of games as mafia. however, i don't think it should be able to change mafia results to innocent. that's way too much of a buff, at that point invests and sheriffs would be useless in framer games.

some downsides are:
- complex. players will have to memorize the results that each number of coins can buy, which can be very confusing for new players
- forger/disguiser-like case where town will automatically be able to figure out that it's a framer game
- bit too powerful for a mafia role, would fit more into NE

[Brilliand]

- bit too powerful for a mafia role, would fit more into NE

Neutrals need goals. I don't see this role having any goal besides "let the mafia win", which makes it a Mafia role.

[xTiffanyyx]

- bit too powerful for a mafia role, would fit more into NE

Neutrals need goals. I don't see this role having any goal besides "let the mafia win", which makes it a Mafia role.

which is why the alliance should change as well as its section. witch doesn't have a goal other than living to the end and supporting evil roles.

[Brilliand]

- bit too powerful for a mafia role, would fit more into NE

Neutrals need goals. I don't see this role having any goal besides "let the mafia win", which makes it a Mafia role.

which is why the alliance should change as well as its section. witch doesn't have a goal other than living to the end and supporting evil roles.

I actually think that's a problem with the Witch - its goal is kind of boring, and usually amounts to "figure out who the mafia are and side with them".

This role doesn't have the ability to support an NK or kill the town without help, though, nor does it have the ability to figure out who the Mafia are. It would need a major overhaul to be playable as a witch-like neutral.

[NyanCats4Days]

seems interesting /support

[Mikemk]

Too complicated, and framer doesn't need a nerf

this is definitely a big buff, not a nerf. instead of having all results show "framer jest vamp", you're guaranteed to frame the TI's target and have a bigger variety than "framer jest vamp".

It's a nerf because framer/jester/vamp can no longer use "I was framed" as a defense if they're invested, because few framers will set someone to something obviously fake, and so town will assume framer/jester/vamp is automatically evil.

Also, it's a hardcounter to invest.

[Brilliand]

Also, it's a hardcounter to invest.

Isn't that what the Framer is already?

[Mikemk]

In its current state, it also affects sheriff. IDK if it affects consig/witch/coven leader

[Brilliand]

In its current state, it also affects sheriff. IDK if it affects consig/witch/coven leader

It does affect sheriff, both in the current version and in the suggested version. It doesn't affect those other roles.

[Mikemk]

It should affect those roles.

Another potential idea: LO will see the person visit whoever the GF/mafioso visit that night. Tracker will see them visit both targets.

[Brilliand]

It should affect those roles.

Obviously it shouldn't affect Consigliere, because that's a fellow Mafia. Likewise it shouldn't affect Witch, because that's likely to be a Mafia ally. The Coven Leader isn't, but she's basically a Witch otherwise, and she can probably tell which role she just controlled anyway (based on the action that resulted).