Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

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Should mirrorer be removed

Yes
13
29%
No
5
11%
Replace it with plaguebearer
27
60%
 
Total votes : 45

Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby EvanManManMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:33 pm

This was a shit role that should never have existed. It relies entirely on random guessing in the earlier stages and gets extremely restricted late game. Even the role ideas subforum is smart enough to deny roles that rely on the existence of other roles and this somehow got accepted. I am aware that it does not have to be included in games, but the fact that it gets any degree of acknowledgement is just sad. By supporting this thread, you can remove this shitty role from the game and bring justice to FM.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Schultz128 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:34 pm

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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby EvanManManMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:35 pm

I have reached an official agreement with the mods (that the mods have not yet agreed upon) that if over half of the FM playerbase based on the most recent estimation vote options 1 or 3 the role will be removed.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Schultz128 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:36 pm

In all seriousness I think the role is pretty bad.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Varanus » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:39 pm

It was just voted in
This isn't how it works

We probably do need a proper method of getting rid of roles though, for future reference
You were expecting a decent signature...

BUT IT WAS ME! DIO!
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Metrion » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:42 pm

Just don't run it?

Or be more vocal in the voting stage?
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Metrion » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:46 pm

Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I don't think the three have been reviewed by the balance team anyway so I'm not sure why they are being added officially in any capacity yet.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:47 pm

Metrion wrote:
Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I wouldn't call 3 people majority myself
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby EvilDeanius0 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:49 pm

At least wait until the next stage of voting before removing it, since it only just got voted in.

It may be bad but it got voted, so it should stay for now, otherwise what is the point of voting for roles if you're just going to immediately remove ones you don't like?

I chose option 3 for memes, but count my vote as "No" for the above reason
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Metrion » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:49 pm

Kmenx wrote:
Metrion wrote:
Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I wouldn't call 3 people majority myself


I wasn't aware the results were public, was there only three votes for it?
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:50 pm

Metrion wrote:
Kmenx wrote:
Metrion wrote:
Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I wouldn't call 3 people majority myself


I wasn't aware the results were public, was there only three votes for it?

Yes
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Chemist1422 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:50 pm

I think it should be tested more before an official position is given.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:51 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:I think it should be tested more before an official position is given.

It already got tested though
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:52 pm

I voted yes but it mostly got picked because people were too busy to vote actual roles so I don't care if it stays or goes
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby ChubbyMooshroom9 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:53 pm

tbf the other two roles got 3 votes too
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Chemist1422 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:56 pm

Kmenx wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:I think it should be tested more before an official position is given.

It already got tested though

Was the list in that game balanced though
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Metrion » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:59 pm

Kmenx wrote:
Metrion wrote:
Kmenx wrote:
Metrion wrote:
Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I wouldn't call 3 people majority myself


I wasn't aware the results were public, was there only three votes for it?

Yes

Okay that is dumb unless like only 7 people voted
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby EvanManManMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Metrion wrote:
Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I don't think the three have been reviewed by the balance team anyway so I'm not sure why they are being added officially in any capacity yet.

You are wrong. Mirrorer was already tested in 14B and it was a massive failure. Part of that failure could come from a horrifically designed setup but it didn't work and received consistently negative criticism in post game. It was approved to attempt to be balanced and flopped, making the addition even more questionable.

I already acknowledged your point of not running it in the OP.

Vocality? The role as mentioned got across the board negative opinions. Nobody liked it after the game where it was tested. The general opinion was clear and it got added anyways due to 3 people picking it (most likely Ultiix's alts)
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby EvanManManMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:29 pm

ChubbyMooshroom9 wrote:tbf the other two roles got 3 votes too

Yes but the other roles aren't god awful

The only big error is that Silencer should be mafia head as it's too much power for a nonunique roll that can roll alongside another head.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby EvanManManMan » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:30 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
Kmenx wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:I think it should be tested more before an official position is given.

It already got tested though

Was the list in that game balanced though

Ultiix designed the game. No it wasn't. That doesn't take away the fact that in that environment the role was still a massive failure
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Metrion » Mon Sep 03, 2018 3:44 pm

EvanManManMan wrote:
Metrion wrote:
Dash2 wrote:A lot of people stated it was bad during submission phase I'm pretty sure

Clearly not the majority.

I don't think the three have been reviewed by the balance team anyway so I'm not sure why they are being added officially in any capacity yet.

You are wrong. Mirrorer was already tested in 14B and it was a massive failure. Part of that failure could come from a horrifically designed setup but it didn't work and received consistently negative criticism in post game. It was approved to attempt to be balanced and flopped, making the addition even more questionable.

I already acknowledged your point of not running it in the OP.

Vocality? The role as mentioned got across the board negative opinions. Nobody liked it after the game where it was tested. The general opinion was clear and it got added anyways due to 3 people picking it (most likely Ultiix's alts)


Also, with roles, if the entire balance team (Metrion, Swordsworth, alzar, and myself) find that a role is unbalanced or broken, it will be excluded.


:WaitWhat:
Not sure what you're replying to in the first paragraph as that's not what I'm talking about.

Your touch on just not running it was you literally crying, so I'm not sure how I can actually treat that as a point. If the role is ignored it would obviously fall from it's status.

At least three people liked it. Which makes it tied for the most popular role. I think if anything it's just shown that the system is poor if it isn't a true representation. Either not a lot of people voted or the votes were split among 30 possible roles. Making the system not first past the post pressumably would be the first step. Lastly, if you're going to say thar schultz isn't aware of alts voting then I think you aren't even attempting to have a serious conversation.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kirize12 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:08 pm

ur rarted
I don't think we should be removing roles that were just added. You haven't so much as given it a chance. And this is coming from someone who despises all the roles.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby OllyRenard » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:39 pm

Tfw I voted too quickly to read the third option
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:21 pm

Yes
RNG is never good for any strategy based game. Please learn the definition of what that means, especially if you're one of the people constantly defending it.

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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby BS4125 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:24 pm

OllyRenard wrote:Tfw I voted too quickly to read the third option

Spoiler:
lemonader666 wrote:
Seththeking wrote:
BS4125 wrote:Please post relevant posts to the topic at hand and not digress. Also please explain your opinions otherwise your contribution is sub-zero.


Oooooooo Mister Power over here!

And would you look at that, I was on the forums longer then you.

But overall the role for this topic needs work, I mean it's so bad people would rather
get off topic lol.

solola is a mod you retard
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