Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

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Should mirrorer be removed

Yes
13
29%
No
5
11%
Replace it with plaguebearer
27
60%
 
Total votes : 45

Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby ChubbyMooshroom9 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:58 pm

yes its called vanilla mafia
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby RAmcius » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:14 pm

ChubbyMooshroom9 wrote:yes its called vanilla mafia


vanilla mafia uses cop, not sheriff, also "follow the cop" is a thing in vanilla mafia

but we discuss standard here and experimental standard roles, not vanilla ones
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Schultz128 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:18 pm

RAmcius wrote:vanilla mafia uses cop, not sheriff


HMMMM
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby RAmcius » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:27 pm

Schultz128 wrote:
RAmcius wrote:vanilla mafia uses cop, not sheriff


HMMMM


cop is vanilla, sheriff is standard in here. Naming is important
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby enderitem » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:28 pm

So we should have instead used a system that either involved more from the FM Mods or the community... huh, how outlandish.

Seriously though, if this is how bad the results are because of the system set for the Creator's Spotlight, then the best course of action is involving the FM Mods more in it as far as I can see. Since they, themselves, removed Evan's role, can't they create a pool of roles submitted by the community and have them be voted instead? Or something reverse in which the Mods can veto roles no matter the votes. There were over 30 roles in this one I believe, votes being this divided sounds normal when that is in mind. Shrinking that amount at least somewhat solves the problem here in my opinion.

RAmcius wrote:cop is vanilla, sheriff is standard in here. Naming is important

Nobody cares, stop derailing the thread.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Metrion » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:51 pm

To be frank, a lot of roles are bad.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby TrueGent » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:58 pm

enderitem wrote:So we should have instead used a system that either involved more from the FM Mods or the community... huh, how outlandish.

Seriously though, if this is how bad the results are because of the system set for the Creator's Spotlight, then the best course of action is involving the FM Mods more in it as far as I can see. Since they, themselves, removed Evan's role, can't they create a pool of roles submitted by the community and have them be voted instead? Or something reverse in which the Mods can veto roles no matter the votes. There were over 30 roles in this one I believe, votes being this divided sounds normal when that is in mind. Shrinking that amount at least somewhat solves the problem here in my opinion.

RAmcius wrote:cop is vanilla, sheriff is standard in here. Naming is important

Nobody cares, stop derailing the thread.

/thread
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby enderitem » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:01 pm

Metrion wrote:To be frank, a lot of roles are bad.

Having people vote for only one role is still democracy. :FeelsGreatMan:
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:19 pm

Silencer won't do shit tbh
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Varanus » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:34 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

Narrator:
"Silencer did in fact do shit"
You were expecting a decent signature...

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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby RAmcius » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:36 pm

Dash2 wrote:
RAmcius wrote:
Schultz128 wrote:
RAmcius wrote:vanilla mafia uses cop, not sheriff


HMMMM


cop is vanilla, sheriff is standard in here. Naming is important

They're literally the same roles. Names don't mean shit


no, they have same description, but they are different roles, or to be exact, you can't use vanilla as example, when you talk about standard. But as usual, Chubby's joke went unnoticed and everyone decided to correct me without realizing what i was saying
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:40 pm

Vanilla mafia uses bus driver not transporter remove gunsmith please ty
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:48 pm

If you don't like the roles that got picked maybe vote next time

I also don't like mirrorer but at least I voted so my opinion has a value
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:53 pm

RAmcius wrote:it's funny, how people without sense of balance make roles, then vote for these roles and you wondering why bad roles are chosen? :lol:

best part is that Evan asking to remove most useless role that no one gonna use, but is totally fine with gunsmith - a role that gives 3 1-shot dayvigs. You may think hitting immune and not knowing who was hit is ok, but whoever shot will know who they targeted and there's no town roles with passive BP yet, so sad days for nk/witch/gf

Oh this makes sense it is like we don't already have a town role that has a 3 shot night vig and can claim should it hit an immune role /s
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

I wouldn't count pseudo blocking invest roles and voting lynch targets without giving any assosiations nothing but I guess whatever floats your boat
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby enderitem » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:06 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

It will just be the best deception role after Janitor probably so yeah, not much. Gunsmith does seem like it needs the number of shots reduced at least, it just solves any counterclaim immediately the following night and it seems like it is easily confirmable. I think people just wanted to vote something from every faction and Mirrorer was the only available Neutral for them... since one of those is Vampire.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Chemist1422 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:18 pm

enderitem wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

It will just be the best deception role after Janitor probably so yeah, not much. Gunsmith does seem like it needs the number of shots reduced at least, it just solves any counterclaim immediately the following night and it seems like it is easily confirmable. I think people just wanted to vote something from every faction and Mirrorer was the only available Neutral for them... since one of those is Vampire.

That's why I voted it. Also we need another NE more than we need another NK.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Varanus » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:29 pm

Janitor is actually bad in the current meta btw
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:48 pm

Technically Cop is Town/Not Town and Sheriff is Mafia/Serial Killer/Stalker/Werewolf/None of the Above.

Chemist1422 wrote:
enderitem wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

It will just be the best deception role after Janitor probably so yeah, not much. Gunsmith does seem like it needs the number of shots reduced at least, it just solves any counterclaim immediately the following night and it seems like it is easily confirmable. I think people just wanted to vote something from every faction and Mirrorer was the only available Neutral for them... since one of those is Vampire.

That's why I voted it. Also we need another NE more than we need another NK.

We don't need more neutrals. Warlock and Kleptomaniac have been around for 32 months now yet have been in few games. I think they both should have more attention rather than a new NE that likely won't work. Especially Warlock.

Varanus wrote:Janitor is actually bad in the current meta btw

In my opnion it's always been overrated. People don't realize how great Mafioso can be.

Kmenx wrote:
RAmcius wrote:it's funny, how people without sense of balance make roles, then vote for these roles and you wondering why bad roles are chosen? :lol:

best part is that Evan asking to remove most useless role that no one gonna use, but is totally fine with gunsmith - a role that gives 3 1-shot dayvigs. You may think hitting immune and not knowing who was hit is ok, but whoever shot will know who they targeted and there's no town roles with passive BP yet, so sad days for nk/witch/gf

Oh this makes sense it is like we don't already have a town role that has a 3 shot night vig and can claim should it hit an immune role /s

I don't think this variant of Gunsmith and Vigilante are comparable. To begin, if a Vigilante shoots a town member they have guilt. A Gunsmith does not. While guiltless vig can be run it's best to do so with two charges. Vigilante also puts the act in the hands of an individual instead of the entire town. A gunsmith shot can be debated like a lynch. A Vigilante can listen to the town during the day but without revealing themselves or by softing they cannot seek direct input. Dayvig shots are stronger than night shots. If there's a cop guilty, shoot the scum and move on to have an extra lynch. With a vig you'd lynch scum and go straight into night. Finally, Vigilante can only prove themselves. A Gunsmith can confirm multiple town members. Say that I'm a Gunsmith and I give a gun to TheCow, a Citizen. He quite obviously shoots Metrion sometime later in the day. Metrion flips red, a Gunsmith is confirmed, and Cow can claim the kill. Unless somebody is told "shoot Player X or we will lynch you" (which will happen a lot btw) a shot on scum is a clear. See: ITA games.


Stop multiposting in a discussion thread when the edit button exists, thanks.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby enderitem » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Varanus wrote:Janitor is actually bad in the current meta btw

That's integral for the Deception subalignment.
Chemist1422 wrote:That's why I voted it. Also we need another NE more than we need another NK.

We had like 5 NE before this, why would we need more? I feel like you didn't even look at the role, just picked it for being NE.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby ICECLIMBERS » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:54 pm

enderitem wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:That's why I voted it. Also we need another NE more than we need another NK.

We had like 5 NE before this, why would we need more? I feel like you didn't even look at the role, just picked it for being NE.

"it" refers to Silencer.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kmenx » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:39 pm

ICECLIMBERS wrote:
enderitem wrote:
Chemist1422 wrote:That's why I voted it. Also we need another NE more than we need another NK.

We had like 5 NE before this, why would we need more? I feel like you didn't even look at the role, just picked it for being NE.

"it" refers to Silencer.

it likely refers mirrorer
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:58 pm

Varanus wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

Narrator:
"Silencer did in fact do shit"

Better Narrator:
"Schultz is rarted"

Kmenx wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

I wouldn't count pseudo blocking invest roles and voting lynch targets without giving any assosiations nothing but I guess whatever floats your boat

Well, the voting thing has been said to only really apply to plurality, which isn't standard.
And pseudo blocking invest roles doesn't do much since invest roles can die early.

enderitem wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

It will just be the best deception role after Janitor probably so yeah, not much.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm?

Thank you, Kmenx, for actually giving a solid argument.
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Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby LinearPoint » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:00 pm

Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

Silncer is a direct upgrade to Prankster.
You can make your Consort silent on top of removing the ability for investigative roles to function if you wanted.

And like you only use Prankster for silent roleblocks and maybe heals anyways.

Also, not 3-shot.
Last edited by LinearPoint on Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Petition to remove Mirrorer from experimental rolecards

Postby BasicFourLife » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:00 pm

Chemist1422 wrote:
enderitem wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Silencer won't do shit tbh

It will just be the best deception role after Janitor probably so yeah, not much. Gunsmith does seem like it needs the number of shots reduced at least, it just solves any counterclaim immediately the following night and it seems like it is easily confirmable. I think people just wanted to vote something from every faction and Mirrorer was the only available Neutral for them... since one of those is Vampire.

That's why I voted it. Also we need another NE more than we need another NK.

It's a terrible NE. What we need is GOOD NEs but they are only a myth.
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