8M | OCTOPATH | Game Over | Town Wins!

[Metrion]

Oh hey, there's cits in the game.

Didn't even read every player. SMH

[TurdPile]

I mean, this logic leads down the path that Consort can keep roleblocking me every night, so as to make it appear that there's actually only 1 RB role, and I'm just lying about being roleblocked

no i dont think so because this makes absolutely zero sense with my theory. why would the consort roleblock you every night if you are scum. why would the consort roleblock you at all if you are scum. hint. they wont. because thats really stupid to actually pull off just in case a lookout exists

How does that not make sense? I mean, now that I've pointed out the logic and it is out in the open, it wouldn't make much sense at this point. But if no one pointed it out? Consort theoretically could keep roleblocking me, while I am increasingly looking more and more suspicious as if I'm faking being so. Seems like it is a straightforward logic to me that would only be unraveled with a Lookout, or second RB'er doing someone else n2 to double confirm that there's 2 RB'ers.

The lookout is a good mention as I was just thinking this as well. Hey lookout... wink. There's nothing to lose by keeping a lookout on me (or Arckas). Hell, it would actually be a good idea, that way the Lookout has an idea of who visited. Consort would be forced to claim Escort, and Escort would just be sitting eating popcorn.
I'm also liking Arckas's train of thought earlier in the day as well, and it didn't actually occur to me until just now. I was just about to propose something that Arckas pretty much already attempted (Arckas is even furthered strong Town in my eyes because of this). If we even wanted to take this a step further: Say both roleblockers to be on me (or Arckas, I have a feeling both of us are just as useless during the night, otherwise why would Arckas offer to be RB'd, unless using reverse logic). But let's just say do me since I'm the one furthering this train of thought. Let's have lookout on me, both the roleblockers roleblock me tonight. If I'm only roleblocked once, then we know for sure there's a consort, and know for sure there's an escort. If I'm not roleblocked at all, the escort is either stupid, or Mafia actually could have two consorts. Hell, the more I'm thinking about this, the lookout can gain a TON of information, especially if I requested a TP on me as well in case the mafia tried to shut me up from saying how many times I was roleblocked.

TL;DR: A: Both roleblockers RB me. B: One TP on me. C: Lookout on me. This will: A: Prove both RBer's factions, and a TP. B: Prove there is a lookout (or lack thereof). Lookout can obviously claim due to TP being around. And if someone wants to CC lookout, then that automatically puts them in the spotlight. I really see no downside to this plan.

I'm actually thoroughly liking this idea the more I think about it. I'll let you guys give your input on this. Just note that if you disagree, you better have a damn solid reason for it otherwise you are automatically going to look sus.

[Metrion]

I've got to say I love Veena's claim.

It absolutely means nothing to claim citizen like that. Absolutely no information can be gathered from it no matter whose side you are on. It could me anything, whether you are being truthful and actually a citizen or are actually a PR. It's something I would do... if on it's own serves a ulterior purpose privy to me and me alone.

Sadly I can't divine such a purpose, or if it's just what it is- an empty claim. Absolutely beautiful.

Better define love.

also nhero for the awkward caps of Slept Peacefully which you already know

When you haven't played FM in a while you forget that small grammatical errors like that on your "slept peacefully" post matter. I didn't even realize I did it until it was mentioned.
There's not a good way to reply to this, because whatever I do to defend it has a pretty good chance of coming off as scummy.
You're also the only player who noticed it and thought anything of it, so im not sure how I feel about that.

@veena the example you gave feels misinterpreted. If someone else states my point I was going to make for me I don't see a reason not to quote them, and I gave my own thought on a completely different matter underneath it that you included for some reason.

A lot of the thoughts I've been having have either been repeated by someone else or proven irrelevant (schulz being replaced and lexiam having supposed internet issues) so give me a bit while I think.

Why are you concerned with coming off as scummy?


P.edit: ack a wall

[TurdPile]

6) TurdPile - holy shit the strongest Town vibe in this game. Solid reads and responses. Nothing to really argue about here

Put your money where you mouth is buddy-o and put up that vote on Nelly

[Metrion]

Spoiler:

I mean, this logic leads down the path that Consort can keep roleblocking me every night, so as to make it appear that there's actually only 1 RB role, and I'm just lying about being roleblocked

no i dont think so because this makes absolutely zero sense with my theory. why would the consort roleblock you every night if you are scum. why would the consort roleblock you at all if you are scum. hint. they wont. because thats really stupid to actually pull off just in case a lookout exists

How does that not make sense? I mean, now that I've pointed out the logic and it is out in the open, it wouldn't make much sense at this point. But if no one pointed it out? Consort theoretically could keep roleblocking me, while I am increasingly looking more and more suspicious as if I'm faking being so. Seems like it is a straightforward logic to me that would only be unraveled with a Lookout, or second RB'er doing someone else n2 to double confirm that there's 2 RB'ers.

The lookout is a good mention as I was just thinking this as well. Hey lookout... wink. There's nothing to lose by keeping a lookout on me (or Arckas). Hell, it would actually be a good idea, that way the Lookout has an idea of who visited. Consort would be forced to claim Escort, and Escort would just be sitting eating popcorn.
I'm also liking Arckas's train of thought earlier in the day as well, and it didn't actually occur to me until just now. I was just about to propose something that Arckas pretty much already attempted (Arckas is even furthered strong Town in my eyes because of this). If we even wanted to take this a step further: Say both roleblockers to be on me (or Arckas, I have a feeling both of us are just as useless during the night, otherwise why would Arckas offer to be RB'd, unless using reverse logic). But let's just say do me since I'm the one furthering this train of thought. Let's have lookout on me, both the roleblockers roleblock me tonight. If I'm only roleblocked once, then we know for sure there's a consort, and know for sure there's an escort. If I'm not roleblocked at all, the escort is either stupid, or Mafia actually could have two consorts. Hell, the more I'm thinking about this, the lookout can gain a TON of information, especially if I requested a TP on me as well in case the mafia tried to shut me up from saying how many times I was roleblocked.

TL;DR: A: Both roleblockers RB me. B: One TP on me. C: Lookout on me. This will: A: Prove both RBer's factions, and a TP. B: Prove there is a lookout (or lack thereof). Lookout can obviously claim due to TP being around. And if someone wants to CC lookout, then that automatically puts them in the spotlight. I really see no downside to this plan.

I'm actually thoroughly liking this idea the more I think about it. I'll let you guys give your input on this. Just note that if you disagree, you better have a damn solid reason for it otherwise you are automatically going to look sus.

Why would we plan around a TI when a TI is dead. Why would TP be on you and let every other target go uncontested. Why would we want a Lookout to reveal just to confirm at most an Escort? What if the TP is a Marshal? Why would we target you and not someone more consensus scum? What if there is a Prankster?

Cut out TP visiting you and perhaps make the RBers target someone scummy and then the plan becomes okay.

[Arckas]

Wouldn't forcing the mafia to waste an action be the same as roleblocking the mafia, Metrion?

[TurdPile]

Cut out TP visiting you and perhaps make the RBers target someone scummy and then the plan becomes okay.

At this point, there is not that much information to go on, and getting a few roles confirmed will benefit us, more than blindfolding ourselves, throwing a dart, and hoping we hit a bullseye. Randomly targeting someone for protection, and randomly targeting someone for a roleblock based on a read is way more prone to error than getting roles confirmed (confirmed that they exist, or don't exist). We get a confirmed lookout? Wonderful, now we know who to trust. We get a couple leads based on the roleblocked. The lookout will get a lead on the TP and can steer things. And if there is no Lookout, then we'll no that as well.

What I'm hearing from you Metrion is that you would rather play russian roulette with targets to protect/RB, than build a strong Town foundation to get slots confirmed. That doesn't ring to me like the right Town logic.

[Nellyfox]

do i have the patience to fully dissect that wall ugh

tl;dr
tp your logic doesnt make sense because it literally doesnt. if a consort keeps rbing you, when I FULLY BELIEVE IN AN ESCORT EXISTING, how does that prove there is only one rb role

btw your plan wont work because if you are being honest about being roleblocked and you are town, the consort isnt going to roleblock you, because you would make an easy lynch when you come out and say you werent roleblocked

[Arckas]

In Metrion's plan, the consort gets to target whoever and the escort targets whoever. The escort does not possess knowledge of who to target and the chances of them hitting mafia are slim. What is more likely to happen is them picking a citizen or a PR way before mafia. Consort gets to target whoever (possibly with other information the mafia gathers such as the consigliere).

In TurdPile plan, the escort wastes an action on someone willing to be roleblocked (either me or TP). In exchange for wasting this action, the consort has to choose between roleblocking someone not worthy to appear town later or doing someone else while giving away that there is a consort.


In the best scenario, escort roleblocks mafia while consort roleblocks citizen. The best scenario is less likely to happen, so plan offers you the closest to the best scenario? While TurdPile's plan does not allow for the best possability, it is the safer option that is not that bad. While Metrion plan offers the best scenario, it is far more likely to offer the worse scenario, which is that a consort (if there is one) targets a PR while the escort targets a PR.

Which is better? This answer varies and is tells alot about a persons alignment.

[Arckas]

Do I have that right, TurdPile?

[TurdPile]

if you are being honest about being roleblocked and you are town, the consort isnt going to roleblock you, because you would make an easy lynch when you come out and say you werent roleblocked

Is anyone else getting confused by what Nelly is saying? I'm not sure how saying I didn't get roleblocked after said plan would lead to me getting lynched.

@Arckas, right for what?

[Arckas]

With the plan you proposed for the escort. To target you or me.

[TurdPile]

If you mean the right to be roleblocked for this plan, I don't see why not. But please also provide your input on what you think of my plan. So far I've seen 2 arguments against, and they don't make much sense to me.

[Metrion]

Wouldn't forcing the mafia to waste an action be the same as roleblocking the mafia, Metrion?

Explain how this forces mafia to do anything.

Cut out TP visiting you and perhaps make the RBers target someone scummy and then the plan becomes okay.

At this point, there is not that much information to go on, and getting a few roles confirmed will benefit us, more than blindfolding ourselves, throwing a dart, and hoping we hit a bullseye. Randomly targeting someone for protection, and randomly targeting someone for a roleblock based on a read is way more prone to error than getting roles confirmed (confirmed that they exist, or don't exist). We get a confirmed lookout? Wonderful, now we know who to trust. We get a couple leads based on the roleblocked. The lookout will get a lead on the TP and can steer things. And if there is no Lookout, then we'll no that as well.

What I'm hearing from you Metrion is that you would rather play russian roulette with targets to protect/RB, than build a strong Town foundation to get slots confirmed. That doesn't ring to me like the right Town logic.

The irony that your plan is literally flipping the coin that a loolout exists and you're lecturing about randomly targeting. Because reads are random btw(????).

If the TPs are on you, then that means Rock dies. Why would we ever tell scum that they can kill whomever they want. That doesn't sound like town logic in the slightest. Literally not protecting our town foundation.

Why have you not responded to my other questions about the plan?

In Metrion's plan, the consort gets to target whoever and the escort targets whoever.

The Escort would target who town says not whomever.

[Arcthurus]

Spoiler:

[Nellyfox]

if you are being honest about being roleblocked and you are town, the consort isnt going to roleblock you, because you would make an easy lynch when you come out and say you werent roleblocked

Is anyone else getting confused by what Nelly is saying? I'm not sure how saying I didn't get roleblocked after said plan would lead to me getting lynched.

assuming your claim is legit, as is arckas, and you are town, and you want both rbing roles to roleblock you, if you do not claim to be double roleblocked tomorrow, thats suspicious, is it not?
the mafia know my line of thinking. it is out here in the thread. consort can either perform no action or just make the factional kill. you claim one roleblock. it is most certainly the escort, who theoretically blocked arckas last night (going along my theory). so where did this second rb go?

granted, i guess this can work in general. i literally keep forgetting factional kills exist sry but heres what i meant

is that everything

[Metrion]

Guz, tagging you in.


Nelly, I think you don't understand. How is it sus if TP gets one RB message? I'm not sure what angle your post is working from.

[Arckas]

If the consort doesn't perform an action and only one person claims to be roleblocked, then we've accomplished one of our goals of wasting a mafia action.

I highly doubt me or TurdPile are lying about being roleblocked due to lack of evidence otherwise. If only one person says they are roleblocked, that doesn't automatically make us guilty for the exact situation you've stated.


While it's wishful thinking, we don't need a lookout to enact TurdPile's plan. We'll know if we have a consort or escort just based on the information given tomorrow.

[TurdPile]

The irony that your plan is literally flipping the coin that a loolout exists and you're lecturing about randomly targeting. Because reads are random btw(????).

Uhh... what? How does knowing for certain that a lookout exists, or doesn't exist hurt us? We don't know if there is one. And if we confirm that there is one, with information on RBs and TP to boot, that is invaluable information this early on in the game. And if there isn't one, how does that hurt exactly? It's another role knocked off the platter.

If the TPs are on you, then that means Rock dies.

Did I miss something? Did Rock get confirmed, and that TP was confirmed on Rock? Why are you assuming Rock will immediately die? Freudian slip because you are Mafia, perhaps?

While it's wishful thinking, we don't need a lookout to enact TurdPile's plan.

While this is true, a lookout in this plan would be invaluable in confirmed roles, and matching players, and forcing claims.

[Arckas]

If the mafia choose to target you or me, they'll know two people at least who visited us. One will be escort, one will be consort. It will not tell us which is which.

If the mafia choose to target someone else while the escort targets one of us, it will tell us who escort is while not the consort.


All in all, it will not tell us the consort. Lookout is better served someone else potentially finding mafia rather then possibly confirming town.

[Arckas]

I have no opinion on Naru and TP other that I admittedly underestimated his ability to FM which has been corrected since his last post.

I hate that I have no idea what "T/T" and "S in the mix" means and am confuzzled

I meant nelly and TP goddammit.

Town/Town or Scum in the mix.

To answer this now, I trust TurdPile as believe him to be town. Nelly remains with the same status.

[RockFire]

Why did everything decide to go to crap right now, come on. I was playing Octopath since I just bought it today because of recommendations from multiple people and being gone for several hours to play means I come back to a dumpster fire.

Also Jesus, that's a lot of walls. I skimmed over the last two pages because of that and all I know is Nelly and TP are having a fight over RBs??? I'll read more in depth now so give me a second.

If the TPs are on you, then that means Rock dies. 

Telling Protectives what to do is dumb unless it's endgame planning because WIFOM protects a lot of players. Also I'd rather not die at the beginning of a game I like the flavor in thanks.

[Arckas]

Also why would Rock die? I've been here all day and I've missed why he's a target.

[Nellyfox]

Guz, tagging you in.


Nelly, I think you don't understand. How is it sus if TP gets one RB message? I'm not sure what angle your post is working from.

am i overthinking this

like i guess the whole tp is sus thing becomes less of a Thing when you consider factional kills which i never think about cause i forget they exist
my line of thinking is just, if one roleblocked claim disappears, that means someone in the past probably lied, but i guess thats null with. factional kills
i will just apologize here for confusion and drop it cause i guess it doesnt matter as much as i thought :?

[Metrion]

If the consort doesn't perform an action and only one person claims to be roleblocked, then we've accomplished one of our goals of wasting a mafia action.

I highly doubt me or TurdPile are lying about being roleblocked due to lack of evidence otherwise. If only one person says they are roleblocked, that doesn't automatically make us guilty for the exact situation you've stated.


While it's wishful thinking, we don't need a lookout to enact TurdPile's plan. We'll know if we have a consort or escort just based on the information given tomorrow.

They would kill, so no not wasting an action.

The irony that your plan is literally flipping the coin that a loolout exists and you're lecturing about randomly targeting. Because reads are random btw(????).

Uhh... what? How does knowing for certain that a lookout exists, or doesn't exist hurt us? We don't know if there is one. And if we confirm that there is one, with information on RBs and TP to boot, that is invaluable information this early on in the game. And if there isn't one, how does that hurt exactly? It's another role knocked off the platter.

If the TPs are on you, then that means Rock dies.

Did I miss something? Did Rock get confirmed, and that TP was confirmed on Rock? Why are you assuming Rock will immediately die? Freudian slip because you are Mafia, perhaps?

HE'S NOT PRETENDING.OH NO.

I didn't say it would hurt us, that's a strawman. The point is you're talking about reads being random when it's a flip of a coin whether or not Lookout exists. It's extremely hypocritical.

Rock is lock stock and barrel town. He's going to get night killed.

When will you reply to any of the points I'm making instead of this crap?