8M | OCTOPATH | Game Over | Town Wins!

[Arcthurus]

i am very humoured

[Metrion]

i am very humoured

Good, good.

[TurdPile]

For all we know, Arc, Met, Rick are the last 3 evils


Kidding, but if the lynch is between Rick and Jerme, I'd rather go with the coin flip than the dice roll. @Ender, if we lynch Rich and he flips Town, then we lynch Rock. If we lynch Jerme and he flips town... who exactly gets confirmed evil here?

[Arcthurus]

i am very humoured

Good, good.

Hahaha.
Kill him.
Kill him now.


Dewit.

[Arcthurus]

Who's the scumteam in your head, TP, roles withstanding.

[RockFire]

Welp, I feel as though there's not much I can add to asking everyone else things so I'll be around in case anything relevant happens.

Also as a heads up, since classes for me start tomorrow I probably won't be around that much unless it's the afternoon/evening where I live.

[Jerme]

Tough question, Met...
I currently have no solid answer to that. Its very likely that Rock vs Rick is TvS and thus I am wrong with having townread both. When we lynch one of them it grants us the following info:
If Rick is town, then we know Rock is scum and the comparison of Veeena and Arc is not true, thus they could have different alignments. IF Rick flips scum, we know that we don't have to trust the "different"-result from Rick on both Poison and Mela and Poison and Rock.
Aside from that, we do not have a enough information, why the mafia didn't kill for two days, so its either a part of the Maifas ability to store kills, a successful TP without granting notifications to the protected, or the Mafias attempt to confuse us.
Also, I agree with TP, that its unlikely of you gaining information about my flip, only the knowledge of a wasted day.
Since the lynch is between me and Rick, I could vote myself, but as it does not help at all, I go with Rick. /vote Rickdaily12

[TurdPile]

Who's the scumteam in your head, TP, roles withstanding.

I've been sus of Rick since the Lex lynch, which is why I was one of the first people to pitch that Mel was a bus for Rick to ride until end-game. I also really didn't like Jerme jumping on the Poison bandwagon so greedily, hence why I put a simple Thonk after Jerme voted her up right after I said something. Seemed too eager for my liking. That said, I do believe Jerme could very well be scum, however, the stronger lynch in my eyes is Rick. At least with a Rick lynch we get a ton of data. With a Jerme lynch it is just... "well, that happened". If Rick flips Town, that confirms Rock as Scum (which the claim by Rock would make zero sense here if not true), this also confirms and validates the parity checks of Rick. If Jerme flips town... that doesn't really give us any information at all and we really only wasted a day based off a hunch; and look at how Nhero-lynch turned out. At least with Rick we have a "shot immune" on the table which is way stronger evidence than anything else we have right now, even if it turns south, we have a confirmed scum lynch tomorrow. I don't think Rick is the Witch, I think Jerme is the witch based on how quick the reverse vote was there, because he knows today is going to be either Rick or Jerme, and obviously the Witch would want to get Mafia lynched as there is two, so he can still win with the last mafia (however unlikely that is at this point). This line of thinking is a stretch though. I'm just more certain of a Rick lynch over a Jerme lynch.

[Arcthurus]

Assuming Rick is town, what scum is Rock and why is he doing this gambit if he gets lynched the other day?

[PoisonMaid]

Who's the scumteam in your head, TP, roles withstanding.

I've been sus of Rick since the Lex lynch, which is why I was one of the first people to pitch that Mel was a bus for Rick to ride until end-game. I also really didn't like Jerme jumping on the Poison bandwagon so greedily, hence why I put a simple Thonk after Jerme voted her up right after I said something. Seemed too eager for my liking. That said, I do believe Jerme could very well be scum, however, the stronger lynch in my eyes is Rick. At least with a Rick lynch we get a ton of data. With a Jerme lynch it is just... "well, that happened". If Rick flips Town, that confirms Rock as Scum (which the claim by Rock would make zero sense here if not true), this also confirms and validates the parity checks of Rick. If Jerme flips town... that doesn't really give us any information at all and we really only wasted a day based off a hunch; and look at how Nhero-lynch turned out. At least with Rick we have a "shot immune" on the table which is way stronger evidence than anything else we have right now, even if it turns south, we have a confirmed scum lynch tomorrow. I don't think Rick is the Witch, I think Jerme is the witch based on how quick the reverse vote was there, because he knows today is going to be either Rick or Jerme, and obviously the Witch would want to get Mafia lynched as there is two, so he can still win with the last mafia (however unlikely that is at this point). This line of thinking is a stretch though. I'm just more certain of a Rick lynch over a Jerme lynch.

Realisticly laying this out.. Rock is not a !confirmed! scum just because "if Rick flops town" . Rock could be a confused townie, or be strongly suspected as scum, which he would be.. lol. Some role could've blocked, made him immune, etc. But I do say.. most likely lynching Rick may have to happen because the data it can give us.
Right now I'm hoping YOU TP, aren't in on the scum list just trying to get rid of townies lol.

[Jerme]

TurdPile is a confirmed Vigilante, Poison, so he totally is scum trying to get rid of townies.

[PoisonMaid]

Redirect??? There's no redirect you fool, that's the point. :p
"Hey my block went to naru but I TOTALLY MEANT to block this other guy. I guess if the blocks happen on townies you cant blame me its not my fault xoxo" when really its because they're witch covering for consort.
Or mafia head! I don't know why I didn't just say that, it's actually simpler that way. I guess I liked the witch theory more because I thought it'd be pretty clever.

What Capo?

Wow just wow as how hard you are to try and say I'm witch or mafia rofl.
Why would I claim escort at all to try and cover for ANOTHER?? Consort on the mafia team? I'm not even going to go into more depth of that.. ANOTHER?? consort? Unlikely..
I don't get how I would be witch. If I was witch, claimed to be escort because i was able to control escort and block people, the "true" escort would have came out about their role, said they were being controlled, and had me lynched already. Then everyone could go about claiming their roles with no problem. Unless it was ANOTHER?? consort that I (as a witch) would be controlling assuming the person was escort and they didnt come out about escort because of them being consort, which would flip mafia if someone investigated them. But I HIGHLY doubt there is another consort. Especially since 2 RBs aren't happening anymore and I am pretty sure I'm escort rofl.


@Jerme post: I totally forgot he was Vigilante LOL. - scratch what I said about that.

[PoisonMaid]

Assuming Rick is town, what scum is Rock and why is he doing this gambit if he gets lynched the other day?

I agree with you questioning this.
I dont think Rock would be scum trying so hard to lynch a town member and just saying "oops" if it turned out bad and expect not to be lynched. He could be town HIGHLY suspecting another townie which would be sad if it happened and then we lynch Rock and he be town too.... or rick could actually be scum and it be a really good thing for townies and Rock would be on the higher trusted list.
I'm still a little confused as to why Rick as a witch role, would try so hard to find mafia and lynch one, unless he knew that we would know from his previous games of his high detective skills playing as townie and that we would be expecting that from him especially to try and prove he is townie.
But the same difference would've happened, he mentioned in other posts he was "trying to leave Rock alone" but since Rock kept coming at him and saying Rick was scum, that Rick had no choice but to suspect Rock was scum and wanted to vote him out. What would've happened if Rock turned out townie? We probably wouldn't have blamed Rick too hard for choosing to get rid of someone suspecting him hard like Rock was doing. Rick being a more respected townie by him getting rid of a mafia, he probably could've tried to play it off as it was TvT that ended terribly, and us not lynch him. But honestly I think we would've had a higher suspension on Rick either way... but that's no longer the case considering his more recent posts are difficult to continue believing he is townie.

Anyways going to throw this out there after my thoughts on that which sorry if I confused anyone or just ended up spilling out nonsense.
Arc, I dont like that you keep pushing role claim when we know there is most likely still a witch related role out there.

I agree with TP when he said there could be a Transporter type role, considering what happened with my attempt at RBing Met and Naru got RBed instead, which WE shouldn't OVERLOOK entirely.. mafia couldve tried to kill but it didnt go through because he was RBed(which I do not highly suspect this AT ALL, just needs to be a thought out there) I RBed Nhero and mafia didnt kill, so we suspected Nhero because of the no mafia kill. But, mafia knew there was an escort out there due to the 2 RBs not just 1 from consort. So they could have purposely missed the kill to get the lynch and confuse townies. Now, I dont know if they would miss a kill purposely on another night to try and continue to confuse us, as well as getting us to suspect the person again that got RBed and lynch them. OR, they tried to kill and Naru got RBed and couldn't. But, I do not know whether or not they tried killing. So that remains out there as a mystery. Do I think Naru is scum right now? Honestly no. Do my suspicions/eyes remain on him right now? Yes, anything can be true lol. Are they high suspicions? No not really.

We still are most likely going to go with the Rick/Rock thing today. So I'm going to place my vote down in a bit. Just in case I won't be back in enough time.

[Arcthurus]

Assuming Rick is town, what scum is Rock and why is he doing this gambit if he gets lynched the other day?

See the problem here lies in the following. Assuming Rick is town:
The argument that has been brought up is that Rock being scum here doesn't make sense because he'd just be lynched the other day. The possibilities are either Rock being town (framed, or witch!Poison) or scum (whichever it is out of mafia/witch).
After we lynch Rick, the "logical" course of action would be a Rock lynch. However, assuming Rock is scum, he just put himself in a highly perilous position. Either he is lynched and loses as witch or places his mafia team very close to losing. So scum!Rock HAS to have taken that position into account -- that would be part of his plan. So after lynching Rick we're left with a lynch that is either on town, or scum that is EXACTLY where he wants to be. There is no scenario where that is actually a situation where WE want to be. What plan scum!Rock would have I do not know, but I don't think it's wise to take chances with that OR lynching a second town screwed by scum(?) night actions.

Rick on the other hand wouldn't exactly have a choice on incriminating Rock if he were scum after being called out as immune. However I stand by what I've been saying before about scum!Rick not making sense either. The one chance of him being scum on my mind was a mafia team of exactly Rick and Poison and with her asking for his head right now that possibility evaporates.

To me, it makes more sense to look outside the dome. For the sake of argument let's assume one of them really is scum.
Ruling out {TurdPile, Enderitem, Metrion, Naru} who I think are obviously not mafia leaves {Poison,Veena,Jerme,Myself}. I'll obviously be ruling myself out but my name included for your convinience.

From {Poison,Veena,Jerme} I gleamed that Poison is never the second mafia no matter what Rick's alignment is, Poison and Jerme can't be Mafia/Witch or Witch/Mafia where the mafia in question was the one controlled, and that none of the votes on either Lexiam/Mela, out of those that happened at all, were anywhere "decisive" to rule any of them out as mafia. In particular, both Jerme and M4x stay eerily quiet about Mela during all of D3 and either made suggestions that pointed against her being scum (Jerme) or suggested she was neutral as a one-liner hottake (m4x) deep into the wagon which is just plain weird and barely commentary at all. I wonder what happened with Poison from D3. M4x's attempts at mimicing cow are quite obvious and bad and frankly probably scum.

[Arcthurus]

It should also be clear Jerme/Poison aren't mafia together either, I think.

Why are you assuming Witch is detection immune Arc? At least, from what you've said that seems to be what you're doing.

Furthermore, what is your Mafia pool then because I'm townreading everyone in the game besides Nhero, Poison, and Rick otherwise I wouldn't have done what I did. Max is either Citizen or GF because detection immune witch isn't something I think exists. And if you assume they are immune to detection why have a Cop and Parity Cop in the game? The whole point of Parity Cop is that they can find non invest immune mafia and neutrals but need a night to startup the checks while Cop can start checks right away but can only find non immune Mafia?

Okay I dont know what page I'm on but your reads are crap aside from Nhero. The fact you keep hounding on Rick brothers me. Idc if you hound and push on me because of my inactivity but oh my gosh is it annoying how you suspect Rick. As of right now it would be the safest move to suggest Rick is town and go target someone else considering the fact all of his posts have been to help town. Regardless of his emotions getting in the way and cussing at people etc. You have not dropped this Rick thing and I above anyone right now think Rick should not be messed with. He couldn't be mafia considering he helped with a mafia lynch, right? He needs to be left alone right now, we have plenty other people to suspect other than him. Rock I have suspected you in the past and even now because of how crappy you're playing. Its annoying. I thought for a second you may have been town but you just aren't proving it to me as the days go by. But my higher suspect right now is Nhero and Metrion. I do have a question for metrion, why no voting today for you?

really makes your brain juice juice brainly

I'm probably giving poison a harder time than they deserve. idk lol

[Arcthurus]

It's Jerme/M4x I think. Who knows who the third is. Anyway I spent some time looking shit up and i gtg now
gimme your brain thoughts everyone

[Jerme]

You are mistaken about me, Arc. Lynching me would be a waste of a lynch, so I'd highly suggest to not do it.
If Rock is scum, then his gambit is to buy time. This would support the stored kills role (Canoneer?), so that he could strike in the next night.
If Rick his scum, then his TI claim is to gain our trust and have prepared arguments why it would be stupid of him to bus a fellow Mafia. Then use the gained trust to try and lead to the town into the wrong direction.

[RockFire]

I'm here now.

Saying your lynch is bad is kind of what anyone would say regardless of alignment so moot point there Jerme.

Also Arc, you give me way too much credit for being a 4D chess player that has a Machiavellian master plan if I'm scum. Cannoneer is a dumb role and seems pretty bastard to me because of how you'd need to figure out how it's interactions would work with a Witch if it visits everyone at once. The only way that idea makes sense is if the stored kills would allow the mafia alive to all preform a killing action which is still just 2 and that wouldn't give scum parity so that makes no sense.

[PoisonMaid]

/vote Rickdaily12
It has to happen. Unfortunately. This all could turn out very poorly.

[TurdPile]

The argument that has been brought up is that Rock being scum here doesn't make sense because he'd just be lynched the other day. The possibilities are either Rock being town (framed, or witch!Poison) or scum (whichever it is out of mafia/witch).

ROCK SAID HE SHOT RICK. There's no frames, there no "reads". There's a point blank statement that Rock tried to shoot. This is literally a coin flip. One is scum, one is not. Unless a protective wants to come out of the woodwork so we don't end up shooting ourselves in the foot, I don't see how any of your justifications make sense, Arc. At this point in the game, the pool is narrow enough where we can still ride the wave to victory (unless Cannoneer does exist, but we can't be betting on that). Parity Cop at this stage is just a 'nice to have' role, which is why I'm on board lynching Rick, even if he doesn't flip scum, because his flip confirms one scum (scum himself, or Rock). There's no way Rock can shift out of a lynch tomorrow if Rick flips Town, and he knows this. We all know this. Which is why going for a gambit like this as scum is completely unfathomable. Not to mention stupid.

Honestly tell me why Rock would go all out and put his life on the line to call out Rick if he was scum? I can't see what you are seeing Arc, and I'm not sure if that is my ignorance, or if you are rapidly rising up on the sus pool.

[Arcthurus]

That's my point TP, if (if) Rock is scum then there has to be some form of immediately winning with a mislynch on Rick here to explain the shot claim. Also you cut out the part before that where I plainly state "assuming rick is town" to which I then proceed to look at both cases of Rock's alignment and if the latter is also town then there had to be a frame involved too, and some way scum stopped the shot.

Frankly I'm getting kind of tired of arguing this out. Either way if you're really going to settle with Rick, fine, at least use the rest of the day to consider who the other two scum is, then. I gave my piece, I think regardless of a flip between those two M4x and Jerme are likely candidates for scum.

[Jerme]

If Rick flips Mafia Head, neither M4x nor me can be Mafia, as I know my role and M4x is the same as you according to Rock, Arc. For me being Witch, I can tell that I was afk from Wednesday noon till Sunday morning, so I completely missed the night and the action and yet there was a control.

[TurdPile]

If Rick flips Mafia Head, neither M4x nor me can be Mafia, as I know my role and M4x is the same as you according to Rock, Arc. For me being Witch, I can tell that I was afk from Wednesday noon till Sunday morning, so I completely missed the night and the action and yet there was a control.

But there was also no kill

[Arcthurus]

If Rick flips Mafia Head, neither M4x nor me can be Mafia, as I know my role and M4x is the same as you according to Rock, Arc. For me being Witch, I can tell that I was afk from Wednesday noon till Sunday morning, so I completely missed the night and the action and yet there was a control.

But there was also no kill

I mean to be fair, the second mafia could've killed too though to avoid a no kill. Also the inactive member control option. I guess veena could've maybe been inactive too? We shouldn't really play thinking from that activity angle though.

[Arcthurus]

If Rick flips Mafia Head, neither M4x nor me can be Mafia, as I know my role and M4x is the same as you according to Rock, Arc. For me being Witch, I can tell that I was afk from Wednesday noon till Sunday morning, so I completely missed the night and the action and yet there was a control.

Well first things first "i know my role" is not a helpful argument and I imagine you know this.
Second, activity isn't really something you can prove in shape or form. This threads on angleshooting at this point too so, let's not.
Finally that IS true for m4x that if rick is mh then m4x is witch/town but Rick could be witch too so I don't see the point here.

Who do YOU think is the scum then, if I'm wrong and you're town? You only mentioned Rick when Met asked iirc.