8M | OCTOPATH | Game Over | Town Wins!

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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:45 pm

As much as I've read Rick as scum...for once I genuinely feel like he's not being scummy right now. However I also cannot commit to a Rock lynch either, and I have reasons for this I won't mention, but I find Ender's claim to be suspicious.'

I thought we weren't going to just claim, but it seems like we are after all. :v
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby enderitem » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:51 pm

RockFire wrote:Um, so according to this I'm the last non MH Mafia because that'd be the only way what you claimed would make sense that would make sense and I'm fairly sure the only possibility of me being scum that I can understand is Witch. The real question here is where the Mafia kill actually went because I did shoot Rick and if what you're saying is true then he'd have to have been RBed which means no kills have apparently been happening these past two days for some reason?

Nothing we have explains where the Mafia kill went. If Rick was MH and got RBed by me, why didn't he claim he was healed when you claimed he was shot? It doesn't look like an action that makes sense. For all we know, Mafia might be using other abilities instead of killing.
RockFire wrote:Also, why in the world would I unvote Rick as Mafia at L-1 when Marionette exists and we know it has to be Mafia from the Lex lynch so I'd just push through such a plan? I mean, unless we're all assuming it's a one shot ability. I unvoted because people were saying things and I didn't want the day to end abruptly as we were saying things.
Marionette did not exist during any lynches after the Lex one, especially the one with Nhero. I don't think it still exists, otherwise it sounds OP considering it can manipulate any lynch.
Naru2008 wrote:As much as I've read Rick as scum...for once I genuinely feel like he's not being scummy right now. However I also cannot commit to a Rock lynch either, and I have reasons for this I won't mention, but I find Ender's claim to be suspicious.'

I thought we weren't going to just claim, but it seems like we are after all. :v

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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 pm

enderitem wrote:
RockFire wrote:Also, why in the world would I unvote Rick as Mafia at L-1 when Marionette exists and we know it has to be Mafia from the Lex lynch so I'd just push through such a plan? I mean, unless we're all assuming it's a one shot ability. I unvoted because people were saying things and I didn't want the day to end abruptly as we were saying things.
Marionette did not exist during any lynches after the Lex one, especially the one with Nhero. I don't think it still exists, otherwise it sounds OP considering it can manipulate any lynch.

While I believe also that Marionette is also no-longer in-play and was a one-time action, I don't think it's safe for us to count it out just yet. We need to continue to proceed with a buffer because who knows if it has more than one-go, or if it can come back at any time.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:53 pm

Also, how in the world does a self heal work if you get RBed when attacked and healed? You RB yourself but you still heal?

Ender, I have literally nothing to tell you besides your claim doesn't line up with things because I shot Rick and it failed and him not claiming RBed while you claim he should be makes no sense if you're town like I think you are. Hm. Maybe he figured it was a Mafia action and lied about it? Naru claimed RBed first yeah?
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:54 pm

RockFire wrote:Also, how in the world does a self heal work if you get RBed when attacked and healed? You RB yourself but you still heal?

Ender, I have literally nothing to tell you besides your claim doesn't line up with things because I shot Rick and it failed and him not claiming RBed while you claim he should be makes no sense if you're town like I think you are. Hm. Maybe he figured it was a Mafia action and lied about it? Naru claimed RBed first yeah?

Today, yes. All-game, obviously not.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:57 pm

That's what I meant Naru. Rick being Mafia and seeing the Naru RB with the mysterious presence thing if he's Mafia means he'd know to not say he was RBed because they redirecte Poison. Also, I just realized something, why would the Witch target TP when we said the Escort would RB them and it just so happens the Mafia has a redirector to make the Escort block someone else?


How would the Witch know what the Mafia was doing last night to make it work out so well?
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:06 pm

Basically, the Mafia and the Witch would have to have somehow contacted each other for that to happen and there's still way too many abilities for so few scum roles left that now and if you believe Rick I can only be Witch which kind of contradicts your entire claim ender since I'd have to be Mafia in the scenario you're saying.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby LevinSnakesRise » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:17 pm

Eh, so your thinking is that Mafia and Witch have had some way to communicate with one another?

Kinda hard to believe. I couldn't think of anything that would have ever allowed them to communicate or signal to one another.

I personally think it's just been luck at that point, or the more obvious situation; Someone's lying.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby enderitem » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:18 pm

RockFire wrote:Also, how in the world does a self heal work if you get RBed when attacked and healed? You RB yourself but you still heal?

Ender, I have literally nothing to tell you besides your claim doesn't line up with things because I shot Rick and it failed and him not claiming RBed while you claim he should be makes no sense if you're town like I think you are. Hm. Maybe he figured it was a Mafia action and lied about it? Naru claimed RBed first yeah?

Rock, why are you questioning my self-heal!?! I seriously can't answer how it works, you should know this.

But that doesn't make sense for him to completely ignore it even after all my pressure on him. Rick might have had a bad start but his actions have been extremely consistent. Him getting his own Mafia lynched makes no sense when I lynched his Consort in that case. I don't think he can play on edge THAT MUCH. Besides, he could have gotten Poison lynched easily with a fake check at the time or just pick Arcthurus and say he was different to further his survival. He seriously is trying to help here. Him being Witch is the only explanation reads-wise but even that is a huge stretch. I just think Witch is someone really inexperienced with Mafia right now. I seriously do not think Rick would actually expect TP to be a 3-shot guiltless Vig, he is a former FM Mod. He should know that is, in no means, acceptable for Town to have. He should have sent Poison to roleblock you for example, now that would definitely further his agenda. So all in all, Rick doesn't fit the scum here while you on the other hand, wasted a Parity Cop check on Arcthurus and M4x instead of checking Rick and you still shot him just to be safe instead of the obvious scum, like Jerme? You have been way too back and forth with him and that is really weird when you are shooting at a Parity Cop that got a Mafia member lynched instead of an obvious pick that could have provided much more. Your paranoia is beyond acceptable at this point, what would have happened if he died as Town and there was no Mafia kill again? You would have nothing to explain yourself with. Your shot was directed towards against a PR instead of a person that no Mafia would have attacked. It doesn't make sense. You have to be Mafia in the scenario I set in the first place. It fits perfectly. You trying to counter-claim Rick the first time mel was about to get lynched. Recycling the same arguments over and over again and pushing his buttons to make him look scummier. This is a possible scenario and I expect you are the most capable one to be able to do it.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:26 pm

I was one of the ones that pushed Lex to be put up to vote D2. Mela was in my lynch list D3. I've been bussing all game if you assume your scenario is true. Of course I'd suspect a Parity Cop claim as a JOAT with a Parity Cop two shot because it's a lot of investigative power. I backed off because mela and Rick responded in ways that made sense to me at the time.

If you want to meta argue, when Rick was a mod Vig did have 3 shots. Guiltless was obvious when TP didn't die but then, witches could still control guilted Vigs to shoot again I think. I checked Arc and then Max because I thought Rick was town like everyone else after the mela flip and I shot him because I got suspicious again going into last night because it made no sense to have so many TI roles with the ability to preform checks and clear potentially a third of the game in two nights and Nhero flipped town which meant the kill had to go somewhere and following my theory that Rick was witch, I assumed it went there.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:30 pm

And if you want to argue about the whole checks thing, I could have just claimed yesterday that I checked Rick and he was different if I was scum because that would have been an easy lynch to have happen if I were really Mafia since I came out and claimed and did want Rick lynched yesterday for the reasoning I've already given.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby enderitem » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:40 pm

RockFire wrote:I was one of the ones that pushed Lex to be put up to vote D2. Mela was in my lynch list D3. I've been bussing all game if you assume your scenario is true. Of course I'd suspect a Parity Cop claim as a JOAT with a Parity Cop two shot because it's a lot of investigative power. I backed off because mela and Rick responded in ways that made sense to me at the time.

If you want to meta argue, when Rick was a mod Vig did have 3 shots. Guiltless was obvious when TP didn't die but then, witches could still control guilted Vigs to shoot again I think. I checked Arc and then Max because I thought Rick was town like everyone else after the mela flip and I shot him because I got suspicious again going into last night because it made no sense to have so many TI roles with the ability to preform checks and clear potentially a third of the game in two nights and Nhero flipped town which meant the kill had to go somewhere and following my theory that Rick was witch, I assumed it went there.

I am sure you would be wise enough to put your own vote on one of your Mafia but it didn't start the wagon or put him in the spotlight. It isn't decisive as literally getting your own Mafia member lynched, Rock.

3 shots with putting the gun away as far as I remember. Besides, why would he risk it? TP surely wasn't gonna shoot him and the only really confirmed Town at the time was TP himself. It seems dumb when the Escort and you are just standing there, waiting to solve the game if not stopped.

RockFire wrote:And if you want to argue about the whole checks thing, I could have just claimed yesterday that I checked Rick and he was different if I was scum because that would have been an easy lynch to have happen if I were really Mafia since I came out and claimed and did want Rick lynched yesterday for the reasoning I've already given.

But why would you when Nhero was getting lynched already? :BlueThink: That would just put you in the spotlight unnecessarily early. It is obvious to do it when it is unavoidable like when he is doing his check on you.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:56 pm

ASGII really does haunt me because that's literally the same argument of "You're smart, you'd do it." I mean, the whole thing about me not starting the wagon is that Met and I had votes on Lex to get him to talk and it kind of built the wagon from there so we kind of did put the spotlight there.

Ender, I put the spotlight on me D4 when I claimed and starting yelling I wanted to lynch Rick. A smarter play would have been to just say nothing and then claim today that I shot Rick and it failed without having to be the check last night. Also my JOAT claim has a through line all the way to D3. All I know is that either a Rick lynch shows us why he didn't claim RBed if that's how it works or you're lying because I know my action happened last night but I doubt that'll convince you either way from your perspective if you're town.

All in all, the Rick lynch kind of just gets way more info on it for me since I know he's scum.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby enderitem » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:06 pm

RockFire wrote:I checked Arc and then Max because I thought Rick was town like everyone else after the mela flip and I shot him because I got suspicious again going into last night because it made no sense to have so many TI roles with the ability to preform checks and clear potentially a third of the game in two nights and Nhero flipped town which meant the kill had to go somewhere and following my theory that Rick was witch, I assumed it went there.

By the way, if you thought Rick was Town after the flip... why did you immediately assume he was the Witch after there were no kills. I am sure you would be aware that all the protectives would be all over the guy, hence no Mafia would dare to hunt him down and even if they did, wouldn't it be more obvious to assume that Rick hid being healed (Although, there is no such message in this game for him to claim) to find the Doctor out? I can't help but think that you were never convinced to begin with even after the mel lynch, if you are what you claim to be of course. So I still think your actions do not match here.
RockFire wrote:Ender, I put the spotlight on me D4 when I claimed and starting yelling I wanted to lynch Rick. A smarter play would have been to just say nothing and then claim today that I shot Rick and it failed without having to be the check last night. Also my JOAT claim has a through line all the way to D3. All I know is that either a Rick lynch shows us why he didn't claim RBed if that's how it works or you're lying because I know my action happened last night but I doubt that'll convince you either way from your perspective if you're town.

All in all, the Rick lynch kind of just gets way more info on it for me since I know he's scum.
No, this is definitely the smarter play. Otherwise, you coming out of nowhere and claiming this would have faced much more resistance. That should be obvious. You had to do it like this, otherwise you would get lynched for nothing or watch him expose everyone one by one and with Poison's claim, it should definitely be a child's play for Town after if Rick survives.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:15 pm

In conclusion, the Rick lynch is still the one that gives us the most info and nothing you've said changes that for me since it means either Rick has some caveat in his rolecard when he flips for a scum role or you're both scum and you're trying to save him somehow so

I highly doubt that there's more to say today aside from what has already been done since our argument isn't going anywhere else today and I think that's all the info out there that gives us enough to work with tomorrow. Also as a personal aside, I'm kind of frustrated that this game is still going on into the semester because I figured it'd be done since we probably wouldn't use everyday to it's fullest.

Also, Ender, I didn't assume we'd have some weird doctor in the game because if nobody got healed or no BG memes happened, I assumed it'd have to be Marshal in the game as the prot. I figured they'd be on Poison to protect a kill/Witch because what else would you logically assume if you thought TP was a regular Vig? I knew two shots was almost guaranteed because of my role so I figured I'd shoot Rick because the Witch thing made sense to me if he wasn't protected N3 due to the RB on Nhero and him flipping town.

Either way nothing I say will convince you if you are town because I know I'm not lying and nothing would change it anyway if you're scum. I would put my vote down on Rick right now to further cement that point but having someone at L-1 is bad when we don't know if the marionette can return or not. Which is why I unvoted in the first place which is apparently a scum oriented thing to do.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby enderitem » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:25 pm

RockFire wrote:Also, Ender, I didn't assume we'd have some weird doctor in the game because if nobody got healed or no BG memes happened, I assumed it'd have to be Marshal in the game as the prot. I figured they'd be on Poison to protect a kill/Witch because what else would you logically assume if you thought TP was a regular Vig? I knew two shots was almost guaranteed because of my role so I figured I'd shoot Rick because the Witch thing made sense to me if he wasn't protected N3 due to the RB on Nhero and him flipping town.

Poison claimed D4, the kill didn't happen at N3 so your suspicion on him still looks weird for me. I can imagine you not expecting any protection on him for N4 but I wasn't here when Poison claimed so...
RockFire wrote:Either way nothing I say will convince you if you are town because I know I'm not lying and nothing would change it anyway if you're scum. I would put my vote down on Rick right now to further cement that point but having someone at L-1 is bad when we don't know if the marionette can return or not. Which is why I unvoted in the first place which is apparently a scum oriented thing to do.

No, it's not but I feel like you want to hammer this lynch yourself. Am I correct?
RockFire wrote:In conclusion, the Rick lynch is still the one that gives us the most info and nothing you've said changes that for me since it means either Rick has some caveat in his rolecard when he flips for a scum role or you're both scum and you're trying to save him somehow so

I highly doubt that there's more to say today aside from what has already been done since our argument isn't going anywhere else today and I think that's all the info out there that gives us enough to work with tomorrow. Also as a personal aside, I'm kind of frustrated that this game is still going on into the semester because I figured it'd be done since we probably wouldn't use everyday to it's fullest.

Yeah, I was supposed to leave these forums a month ago but I promised Rick that I would play in this. I suffered for quite long and I want to go to sleep at the moment but I still am more inclined to believe you are the scum compared to Rick and your lynch proves much more than Rick does whether it be about your results or your counter towards him and he is overall more useful. Let's agree to disagree I guess. I won't be here for the lynch. Good night.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:33 pm

I mean, I kind of want this lynch hammered in general because I know Rick because your claim doesn't change the fact I shot him.

And no N3 kill meant it had to go somewhere so the ideas I presented in D4 were reinforced when Nhero flipped town meaning the RB didn't stop the kill and nobody claimed anything so that meant an immune had to be hit in my mind and I thought shooting Rick would kill him as a Witch lacking their shield and they'd turn up flipped today. And night then.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:26 pm

Since no one is listening to me that I'm pretty dead set on Rock being the Witch, I hope you guys have a plan about his next target.

No doubt he targeted Turd because he thought Turd might have still had bullets, so now that that's off the table I'm sure he's going to turn his attention to Poison next. But hey, if there was anyone with a Lookout ability, I'm sure they'd have been on Turd to see him visit there as well.

I also can't believe anyone is buying his bullshit about his 1-shot Veteran power either, that's clearly to explain away any Night Immunity he might have, but whatever. :roll:
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby Swordsworth » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:30 pm

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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:37 pm

Veteran one shot? I never claimed to have anything like that unless you're referring to my commute which I can do and it literally renders me unable to be targeted by anyone that night and will notify anyone that visits me that any actions against me failed.

I am curious about the Ender self heal bit since how does it makes sense to heal yourself when successful heals cause an RB?
Either way, I think today is pretty much done and I don't think we have anything more to add since a lot of people won't be around when day ends like Poison and Ender so

/vote Rickdaily12


Also, I literally can only be Witch so Ender's entire thing of me being Mafia is odd but that's something to look into tomorrow since he won't be here the rest of today.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:39 pm

I am referring to your "commute", it is still a bullshit way of covering your night immunity.

I swear, if we lose has listened to me all game, the amount of rage and salt I will die with will be unbearable.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:39 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:I am referring to your "commute", it is still a bullshit way of covering your night immunity.

I swear, if we lose because no one has listened to me all game, the amount of rage and salt I will die with will be unbearable.

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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby RockFire » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:45 pm

AtE sure has been a running theme with you this entire game Rick. Picking apart my claim is kind of reaching when it makes sense in the context of the game and I figured what I thought of the rolelist because of how I have one of each ability and having more PRs is wack for balance which I still hold is an argument that holds water in closed games.

But either way saying that is kind of pointless when I'm arguing with someone I know is scum.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby Metrion » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:46 pm

Rickdaily12 wrote:Since no one is listening to me that I'm pretty dead set on Rock being the Witch, I hope you guys have a plan about his next target.

No doubt he targeted Turd because he thought Turd might have still had bullets, so now that that's off the table I'm sure he's going to turn his attention to Poison next. But hey, if there was anyone with a Lookout ability, I'm sure they'd have been on Turd to see him visit there as well.

I also can't believe anyone is buying his bullshit about his 1-shot Veteran power either, that's clearly to explain away any Night Immunity he might have, but whatever. :roll:


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Ender literally made a giant wall that I didn't read yet because of formatting, and then voted Rock.
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Re: 8M | OCTOPATH | Day 5 | Hornburg Ruins

Postby Rickdaily12 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:52 pm

RockFire wrote:AtE sure has been a running theme with you this entire game Rick. Picking apart my claim is kind of reaching when it makes sense in the context of the game and I figured what I thought of the rolelist because of how I have one of each ability and having more PRs is wack for balance which I still hold is an argument that holds water in closed games.

But either way saying that is kind of pointless when I'm arguing with someone I know is scum.

I'm arguing with someone I know is Witch and has had an entire month's worth of time to make a JOAT claim work to get a parity cop lynched.

I'm arguing with someone who makes balance arguments while also trying to say that someone can somehow be a second Town Vigilante and rig it so that he learns all the scum who can visit him and exactly what they can do WITHOUT killing him in a game where Town has three times the numbers of the Mafia.

Rock, you have a way of being the largest hypocrite when I turn your own logic against you. It's why I just do not give shits to argue with you anymore. But at the very least I'm trying to tell people what you're going to do next if you live because I know they're grossly underprepared for what happens next, and unlike you, I'm trying to remind them how and why you've been lying the way you have.

Also, nice bringing me back to L-1 when the Marionette exists like you pointed out not even four hours ago.


P-edit Metrion, what exactly is your point? He voted Rock because of his own role claim and night actions, and if you're not going to discuss what he said about it because you didn't read what he said I'm not going to bother discussing it with you.

In fact if you have anything worthwhile to add at all, I'm interested in listening because I'm tired of arguing with the Witch here.
"Don't lie this is all so you could post Ace Attorney gifs and have it be relevant isn't it." ~Sarah Thorpe

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Rickdaily12
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