12E: Treacherous Temple: Game Over (Town, NB, NE Won!)

[PurpleSidewalk1]

Purple, are you SRing me?

Scum reading or stupid reading? Because I am only doing the latter. Step up your game mate. I can't read you if you are doing jack shit.

What do you think of snap's case on me and the people who believe it?

People still believe that? snap doesn't even believe that. I already disproved it. Who still believes that? I think chit has a different reason.

[xUltiix]

Purple, are you SRing me?

Scum reading or stupid reading? Because I am only doing the latter. Step up your game mate. I can't read you if you are doing jack shit.

What do you think of snap's case on me and the people who believe it?

People still believe that? snap doesn't even believe that. I already disproved it. Who still believes that? I think chit has a different reason.

What do you think chit's reason is?

[PurpleSidewalk1]

Purple, are you SRing me?

Scum reading or stupid reading? Because I am only doing the latter. Step up your game mate. I can't read you if you are doing jack shit.

What do you think of snap's case on me and the people who believe it?

People still believe that? snap doesn't even believe that. I already disproved it. Who still believes that? I think chit has a different reason.

What do you think chit's reason is?

I am scum reading xUltiix. I don't like that he keeps saying that he scum reads awesome and does pretty much nothing about it other than voting. Minimal effort to explain his read and push awesome.

I would say based on this that you are at the lower end of the scumread spectrum, but that is one of the reasons I asked him to rank his scumreads.

[Anonymous0726]

Readslist with explanations. Spoiler:

1. HarperReed: Medium Town. No pings from him; has been actively participating in discussion, not just sheeping, etc.
2. JackoDerp: Slight Town. Hasn't been contributing a whole lot, but I like what he's bringing to the table. One of my lower townreads, but a townread nonetheless. Also, Jacko vs. Under feels TvS.
3. xUltiix: Null. Not really contributing much anything of substance. Might be trying to pass it off as of substance, however. Still, nothing AI enough for me to read him right now.
4. UNDERSTOOD12345: Moderate scum. Where do I begin on him. I recognize that his town meta is similar to what he's been doing this game, but still, I just can't bring myself to think of him as not scum. He's been so inflexible, which can be somewhat explained by meta, but also, his self-meta-ing is what really seals the deal for me on him.
5. OllyRenard: Null. Another slot I'm having trouble reading. He has a somewhat weak push on awesome, but it doesn't feel very AI. Also, not a whole lot of content from him besides that to go on.
6. Icibalus: Slight town. Had the bad case on andi, but recognized it and made several rather townie contributions for a while. However, has since semi-disappeared.
7. snapshot112: Strong scum. I believe that I, and others, have articulated the case against snapshot quite well. Don't think there's much more to say than that.
8. chitownmvp01: Medium Town. Not sure what to say but he's been contributing, etc. Elder didn't seem anti-town either, though he was inactive and thus content was low.
9. QuantumRadius: Medium Town. Again, has been actively contributing actual content. Was also the first one to call out snap, iirc. So actively scumhunting.
10. Awesome5000: Strong scum. My second lynch target, atm. Basically that way only because of people who have been on the wagon: Shortcut I'm scumreading, Olly is null and someone I just want to be wary of, and Ulti, I'm not really sure on and in general would not mind being on a wagon with, but the other two outweigh that.
11. Andilin1: Null: I had him as a slight town earlier (forget if I stated that, though), but I don't like the way he's disappeared after he no longer has to defend himself. I'm still waiting on an answer from him on something, for example.
12. EvilDeanius0: Slight scum, as stated before.
13. ShortCutButton: Moderate scum. Actually, there are several parts of his posts that could make me think he's town. However, when taken as a whole, such as his strange jumping on andi wagon, as noted, his posts point the other way. In additions, since that jump, his vote-switching has not appeared to be town-motivated. And I don't think he's usually this sheepy without being scum.
14. PurpleSidewalk1: Strong town. Actually really liking Purple right now. No pings, and has been very helpful and has contributed quite a bit without (apparent) hesitation; and contributions certainly appear to be town motivated.
15. TalkingDirty: Slight scum. That early doubtcasting is still giving me bad vibes. Reads are decentish, enough to bring him a a notch from moderate scum, though the read on snapshot was never completed.
16. JammySplodge: Null. Only thing vaguely notable about the slot is that it still has a vote parked on Jacko from RVS.
17. Anonymous0726: Towniest man alive.
18. Multiverse: Null. Kind of feels like he's trying to contribute the bare minimum and lay low. Could easily be playstyle, though. Would really like to see some (more than the few that were posted) opinions from him.
19. MaccaMania: Slight Town. Subject to change based on what the reads look like. However, although still scumreading for andi for ??? reasons, looks pretty good besides that.
20. Enxtra: Slight town. Contributions feel genuine from a new player. Will keep an eye on this, just in case, but nothing to indicate scum right now.

7-tiered list thingy, with townier people generally being on the left. (Moderate towns are arbitrary.)
{Anonymous0726, PurpleSidewalk1}
{HarperReed, chitownmvp01, QuantumRadius}
{Icibalus, JackoDerp, Enxtra, MaccaMania}
{Andilin1, JammySplodge, xUltiix, OllyRenard, Multiverse}
{EvilDeanius0, TalkingDirty}
{UNDERSTOOD12345, ShortCutButton}
{awesome5000, snapshot112}

Some quick role-list spec: I'm guessing it's probably something like 13/4/3 town/mafia/neutral, or 12/4/3/1 with the one being a NB. That's kind of my basis for my reads above; one of the nulls (thinking Olly or Multi atm) and the reds are the 4/3, in some order.

[HarperReed]

Oh yes I get that. I will move him to null because I can actually see exactly what you mean in this instance and I can see him as scum now... I am actually curious why you aren't pushing him, that is some serious parallel scummy bullshit right there.

Harper is not exactly scum reading Under just yet, just making the point they are not "obvious town" as they claim to be. Harper leaves them as a solid null for now but seriously would consider looking into anyone that actually sheeps Under. Granted Under is not winning any favours with Harper until they step up their game and actually contribute to town in a non cocky conceited manner.

[Icibalus]

UNDER does NOT default to being a cocky asshole.

He goes through that in his town meta, but doesn't start off like that.

UNDER could be more confident in his abilities as scum, since the only reasons for his death in SFM28 were a PL and a flavour slip.

Because of this he might have dropped the bar on trying.

Hypothetical atm, and I'll be on more soon.

[Icibalus]

Urgh... I really don't want to think about UNDER.

I mean on one hand he's somehow become even cockier than usual, but on the other hand that's what he does as town.
Then again, in SFM28 he did a pretty good impression of Town!UNDERSTOOD until me and Obi caught his flavor slip, but he was better as being townread there than he is here...

This UNDER seems like he's trying less, and that's the only thing that places him as Slight Scum for me, because if he's trying less then the cheaper imatation of his townmeta is explained.

I'd reccomend a copcheck tonight.

[EvilDeanius0]

Don't tell TIs who to check.

Thinking about things Ult and Harper have said (particularly Alignment Cop), I feel like doing this now is probably better for both myself and for town, as opposed to what I had planned to do, which was drawing a mafia kill and claiming bulletproof later on. Might give us a better idea of possible roles.

I'm hardclaiming Survivor.

[Icibalus]

I only reccomended it. I'm just saying that if I was a Sherrif ATM I would check UNDER. But that's beside the point.

[MaccaMania]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I CANT BE ASSED WTIH THIS SHITTY WEBSITE

I had a full post prepared with reads and explanationsfr the reads and then t all just deleted itself and I can't be fucked doing it all again

[awesome5000]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I CANT BE ASSED WTIH THIS SHITTY WEBSITE

I had a full post prepared with reads and explanationsfr the reads and then t all just deleted itself and I can't be fucked doing it all again

Web history?

[MichaelgRook]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I CANT BE ASSED WTIH THIS SHITTY WEBSITE

I had a full post prepared with reads and explanationsfr the reads and then t all just deleted itself and I can't be fucked doing it all again

Welcome to my world.

[MichaelgRook]

Current Vote Count

Player	Votes	Voters
	#	Votes Until Majority

[MichaelgRook]

Whoops, got confused.
28 1/2 hours remain.

[MaccaMania]

[Enxtra, Quantum]
[Ici, Harper, Chit]
[Everyone else]
[TD, Andi]
[Snap, ultii]

I think this is what my reads were. I might have missed some

I'll redo the explanations later when I'm not pissed off

[JazzMusicStops]

/vote Harper

You annoy me

[JazzMusicStops]

AC?

Alignment Cop.
Checks alignment for comparisons from player to player. Usually not usual until the end of night two when gets comparative results.

That's a Parity Cop

[JazzMusicStops]

Speculation about the roles in play will get us nowhere
Assume this is 11G again and drop the subject it isn't helping

[ShortcutButton]

@Olly first post wasn't a bad reaction it was awesome hoping to get into a "natural" argument to look towny. still good eye

@Harper the only case on olly is ultiix reads

@Under oof that's brutal for purple

/vote snap

This was on page 30 Michael.

[MichaelgRook]

I'm going to clarify what will not be counted when voting:
-votes in spoilers
-votes in a paragraph
-unbolded votes
-votes in the incorrect format

Other than that I'll try to look more carefully.

[Multiuniverse]

Purple you proved me wrong about Olly. They're now null.

Spoiler:

-snip-

I prefer a snap lynch over a UNDERSTOOD lynch, I said earlier that I can see why people would scum read him. I'm not scum reading under atm though.

About the Olly vote, I hosted a game where he was Mafia where he joined a wagon in pretty much the exact same way. I think I've played with him as town before, it's been awhile. His play so far is reminding me of him as Mafia in 11E.

I am scum reading xUltiix. I don't like that he keeps saying that he scum reads awesome and does pretty much nothing about it other than voting. Minimal effort to explain his read and push awesome.

Shortcut flip flopping between snap and awesome is pinging me a bit and I thought his reasons for voting awesome were weak in the post below, especially the 2nd one which was clearly during meme time and is NAI.

@Shortcut I noticed that you changed your vote from snap to awesome in a short period of time, what changed your mind?

Snap was acting kinda townie for a bit, and I went through awesomes iso and found this, and this.

1. where did that come from? I am not SR under at all...
2. read VFM10 Olly ISO: search.php?t=65370&author=OllyRenard ez Olly!town here but it more gut than actual meta and I am just linking this to show how his behaviour here is NAI at worst.
3. Ult didn't even vote for awesome until just recently, but Ult!town is so fucking stupid I don't know about it.
4. Yes! That was a very pinging experience, but I think it is why he changed his vote to snapshot which makes me think he is either scum and both awesome and snap are town or he is just town. I highly doubt that both awesome and snap are town atm although awesome has been looking like town as I have been trying to make a case on him.


@Harper I will finally answer your question about the TR on the snap wagon. At the time we had PurpleSidewalk1, Anonymous0726, QuantumRadiance, MaccaMania, Understood12345, Enxtra (btw my vote wasn't added until way later even though I was the second person to vote for snap wtf is wrong with you michael)
Anon: I haven't actually done an in depth look at him, but every post I've seen from him has been productive, town motivated, and helpful. I see him as slight town with the possibility of being a good scum member.
Quantum is actually heytheregirl: I am very confident in my ability to read Quantum given that I've basically played/read the last 3/5 games with her and I feel I've got a good handle on whether she is town or not. This seems a lot like Quantum!town to me which is why I put her as my highest townread.
Macca: this is the only null on the wagon.
UNDERSTOOD: seems like classic town UNDERSTOOD to me except I could be mistaken and I have been wondering for maybe the last page and a half about him, but at the time I was townreading him because of his earlier gambit that I felt only town would think to do and his stubbornness being higher when he is town than scum.
Enxtra: this is my friend who I love dearly, but I actually like their play so far and think that someone coming from ToS wouldn't be this capable of fooling my gut as scum. Also every single new person I've ever played with has failed to escape an accurate gutread so ye I could double back on it given more content from the slot, but I am fairly certain this is town for now.

I think Shortcut is on the wagon now too and I am more wary about him, although I don't think there would be bussing on snapshot at this point because everyone is fairly open (except for UNDERSTOOD) with the presentation of other wagons. I know I am willing to throw my vote around before the day is up.

I'm confident that Harper, Enxtra, and Anon are town. Gutting Jammy (the new murat keeps being town), Ici, Quantum, and Purple as town. TD and andilin gut scum. Scum reading xUltiix, Jacko, Shortcut, and snap.

Harper thank goodness isn't acting like a newbie this time and post seem town motivated and genuine. Enxtra is new and seems calm and not tentative, usually results in being town for newbies. Anon I'm town reading based off of tone and gut. TD feels a bit different than the short time I was in NFM42, gut scum read. Andilin trying could be scum or town, gut feeling that it's scum. Apparently michael hinted that Enforcer isn't in play, only thought of it because it's easy to suspect andilin of being coached.

Not sure about Purple, 10B always makes me skeptical whenever I think he's town. I'll probably read him off of associations. Unless there's a Purple/Olly scum team, I'm not sure scum!Purple would try to discredit me about Olly and let me try to convince others that Olly is scum. Idk mainly a gut town read for now. I usually don't have a hard time reading Purple once some associations start to come in.

I look forward to seeing Macca's reads.

/unvote
intent to vote snap

@Micheal chit unvoted Olly

[UNDERSTOOD12345]

If you don't end up lynching me, the fact that I will be catching the entire scumteam will neccecitiate a nightkill on me.

nooooo. now they'll leave you alive so you can push their mislynches via deathtunnel, or begin questioning whether you are even close. you also have the possibility of being scum yourself. and as a last resort, you're an easy lynch. there is absolutely zero chance you ever get nightkilled this game.

Nope, you'll see. I always end up getting nightkilled if town dosent policy lynch me just because i literally am that good at catching scum

[UNDERSTOOD12345]

Readslist with explanations. Spoiler:

1. HarperReed: Medium Town. No pings from him; has been actively participating in discussion, not just sheeping, etc.
2. JackoDerp: Slight Town. Hasn't been contributing a whole lot, but I like what he's bringing to the table. One of my lower townreads, but a townread nonetheless. Also, Jacko vs. Under feels TvS.
3. xUltiix: Null. Not really contributing much anything of substance. Might be trying to pass it off as of substance, however. Still, nothing AI enough for me to read him right now.
4. UNDERSTOOD12345: Moderate scum. Where do I begin on him. I recognize that his town meta is similar to what he's been doing this game, but still, I just can't bring myself to think of him as not scum. He's been so inflexible, which can be somewhat explained by meta, but also, his self-meta-ing is what really seals the deal for me on him.
5. OllyRenard: Null. Another slot I'm having trouble reading. He has a somewhat weak push on awesome, but it doesn't feel very AI. Also, not a whole lot of content from him besides that to go on.
6. Icibalus: Slight town. Had the bad case on andi, but recognized it and made several rather townie contributions for a while. However, has since semi-disappeared.
7. snapshot112: Strong scum. I believe that I, and others, have articulated the case against snapshot quite well. Don't think there's much more to say than that.
8. chitownmvp01: Medium Town. Not sure what to say but he's been contributing, etc. Elder didn't seem anti-town either, though he was inactive and thus content was low.
9. QuantumRadius: Medium Town. Again, has been actively contributing actual content. Was also the first one to call out snap, iirc. So actively scumhunting.
10. Awesome5000: Strong scum. My second lynch target, atm. Basically that way only because of people who have been on the wagon: Shortcut I'm scumreading, Olly is null and someone I just want to be wary of, and Ulti, I'm not really sure on and in general would not mind being on a wagon with, but the other two outweigh that.
11. Andilin1: Null: I had him as a slight town earlier (forget if I stated that, though), but I don't like the way he's disappeared after he no longer has to defend himself. I'm still waiting on an answer from him on something, for example.
12. EvilDeanius0: Slight scum, as stated before.
13. ShortCutButton: Moderate scum. Actually, there are several parts of his posts that could make me think he's town. However, when taken as a whole, such as his strange jumping on andi wagon, as noted, his posts point the other way. In additions, since that jump, his vote-switching has not appeared to be town-motivated. And I don't think he's usually this sheepy without being scum.
14. PurpleSidewalk1: Strong town. Actually really liking Purple right now. No pings, and has been very helpful and has contributed quite a bit without (apparent) hesitation; and contributions certainly appear to be town motivated.
15. TalkingDirty: Slight scum. That early doubtcasting is still giving me bad vibes. Reads are decentish, enough to bring him a a notch from moderate scum, though the read on snapshot was never completed.
16. JammySplodge: Null. Only thing vaguely notable about the slot is that it still has a vote parked on Jacko from RVS.
17. Anonymous0726: Towniest man alive.
18. Multiverse: Null. Kind of feels like he's trying to contribute the bare minimum and lay low. Could easily be playstyle, though. Would really like to see some (more than the few that were posted) opinions from him.
19. MaccaMania: Slight Town. Subject to change based on what the reads look like. However, although still scumreading for andi for ??? reasons, looks pretty good besides that.
20. Enxtra: Slight town. Contributions feel genuine from a new player. Will keep an eye on this, just in case, but nothing to indicate scum right now.

7-tiered list thingy, with townier people generally being on the left. (Moderate towns are arbitrary.)
{Anonymous0726, PurpleSidewalk1}
{HarperReed, chitownmvp01, QuantumRadius}
{Icibalus, JackoDerp, Enxtra, MaccaMania}
{Andilin1, JammySplodge, xUltiix, OllyRenard, Multiverse}
{EvilDeanius0, TalkingDirty}
{UNDERSTOOD12345, ShortCutButton}
{awesome5000, snapshot112}

Some quick role-list spec: I'm guessing it's probably something like 13/4/3 town/mafia/neutral, or 12/4/3/1 with the one being a NB. That's kind of my basis for my reads above; one of the nulls (thinking Olly or Multi atm) and the reds are the 4/3, in some order.

This Is utterly bad.

[UNDERSTOOD12345]

Having me as scum? Have utulix, the most easy town grad ever, as null? Having Jacko as town?
Yet I can plausibly see where your coming from from some of them.


Also, to all those who somehow are scumreading me: try looking past my meta, except the parts where I get scum

[UNDERSTOOD12345]

If you don't end up lynching me, the fact that I will be catching the entire scumteam will neccecitiate a nightkill on me.

nooooo. now they'll leave you alive so you can push their mislynches via deathtunnel, or begin questioning whether you are even close. you also have the possibility of being scum yourself. and as a last resort, you're an easy lynch. there is absolutely zero chance you ever get nightkilled this game.

Nope, you'll see. I always end up getting nightkilled if town dosent policy lynch me just because i literally am that good at catching scum

Most people think this way, don't feel that bad, until they actually end up in a game with me and I scunrrad the entire mafia at some point. You will learn