9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Game Over (Town Wins!)

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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby RockFire » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:12 pm

Alouvre is whispering to TiltedConedian and SirkCakez! They have two whispers remaining.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:12 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
James2 wrote:
ElusiveBelle wrote:You mean other than the very blatant targeting of one player in specific?

Kirize likes to play abrasive but coming out of the gates like that before the offending player can even make a post, as others have said, comes off a bit skeptical. It could be Kirize being Kirize, that is a very likely scenario, that doesn't excuse the caution that should be taken regardless until more concrete evidence comes forward

This is very true, the Town Power should have priority protection. That is why them revealing so early is a bad thing, it leaves everyone else vulnerable with close to no protection.


They need protection because of their value to town. Their value primarily comes from their leadership abilities, which are null if they don't reveal.

And besides, we do in fact have the means to protect them.

Town Power =/= leadership ability. They may be the leader, but if they're incompetent we will not let them lead.

Honestly, I'm done arguing with you over this. If you wanna blindly follow the Town Power, kindly follow him into a Veteran and save us the trouble of having to deal with your bullshit.


Given that the town is 40% evil, it's not qualified to judge the competence of a confirmed town member. Scum will declare any leader incompetent.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Tiltedcomedian » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:13 pm

alouvre is Town.

I think.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:13 pm

alouvre wrote:Non-TPwr town that can also easily confirm themselves:

1. Non-shitty escort
2. Doctor with successful heal
3. Vigilante
4. Non-shitty firebrand
5. Veterab
6. Transporter

every other role can also be proven under circumstantial evidence as well so idk what your point is

James2 wrote:This is what I call the "I can't hear you fallacy".

Referencing politics doesn't nullify the point, and it's pertinent because this game involves a type of politics.

And what if you're an anarchist? Then it's still a matter of opinion.

All in all it just boils down to the tpwr's decision on whether to reveal or not.


If they can absolutely confirm themselves, then the same argument applies.

In this game, I believe the anarchists are called "neutrals".
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby ElusiveBelle » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:14 pm

The other problem is the Protective roles, lets say at least one of the Randoms rolled Cit, that leaves two slots we're banking on to also have rolled a Town Protective, should the one confirmed one die and leave the Town Power unprotected. Those odds seems pretty low considering all the roles that can be rolled.

Then as a side note, even if they didn't roll the Town Protective. The one we do have can be Doctor, Bg, or Marshal. Two of which can only fend off one person a night leaving the Town Power to be killed by the other evil in town and leave us without a Protective or Power and maybe one dead evil in exchange.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby alouvre » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:14 pm

ily2 tilted <3

ok james
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby RockFire » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:14 pm

TiltedComedian is whispering to alouvre! They have three remaining.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:15 pm

LordofFail wrote:
James2 wrote:And all this stuff about the TPower's competency is besides the point. Obama* is an incompetent fool, but we're still better off with him as President then we would be under anarchy.

*If you're a lib then you can pretend I said Bush.


I am Canadian and do not get your analogy because I dont give two shits about United States politics.


Then pretend I referred to a Canadian Prime Minister that you dislike.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:16 pm

I personally think it's to the Town Power's discretion whether to reveal or not - it depends on the outcome of the game.

However, I wouldn't mind the Mayor to reveal 25 hours into Day 2, but it depends on what happens Night 1. I'll elaborate further when Night 1 has resolved and I'll make my final decision on whether or not I'd like a potential Mayor to reveal 25 hours into Day 2.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby alouvre » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:17 pm

Regardless of what the prot is, I'm pretty sure their target will still die if they're targeted by more than one killing role.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:17 pm

ElusiveBelle wrote:The other problem is the Protective roles, lets say at least one of the Randoms rolled Cit, that leaves two slots we're banking on to also have rolled a Town Protective, should the one confirmed one die and leave the Town Power unprotected. Those odds seems pretty low considering all the roles that can be rolled.

Then as a side note, even if they didn't roll the Town Protective. The one we do have can be Doctor, Bg, or Marshal. Two of which can only fend off one person a night leaving the Town Power to be killed by the other evil in town and leave us without a Protective or Power and maybe one dead evil in exchange.


Even if the Town Power died night two, they could still help us by giving us info on who's likely to be scum, who's likely town etc
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:18 pm

alouvre wrote:Regardless of what the prot is, I'm pretty sure their target will still die if they're targeted by more than one killing role.

Doctor heals all attacks actually.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby alouvre » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:19 pm

I —

wow
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:21 pm

James2 wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:
James2 wrote:
They need protection because of their value to town. Their value primarily comes from their leadership abilities, which are null if they don't reveal.

And besides, we do in fact have the means to protect them.

Town Power =/= leadership ability. They may be the leader, but if they're incompetent we will not let them lead.

Honestly, I'm done arguing with you over this. If you wanna blindly follow the Town Power, kindly follow him into a Veteran and save us the trouble of having to deal with your bullshit.


Given that the town is 40% evil, it's not qualified to judge the competence of a confirmed town member. Scum will declare any leader incompetent.

Town is 40% evil and 60% good. Majority rules.
If we declare the Town Power incompetent, I will not allow them, whatever role they might be, to become one of the town leaders.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:21 pm

ElusiveBelle wrote:The other problem is the Protective roles, lets say at least one of the Randoms rolled Cit, that leaves two slots we're banking on to also have rolled a Town Protective, should the one confirmed one die and leave the Town Power unprotected. Those odds seems pretty low considering all the roles that can be rolled.

Then as a side note, even if they didn't roll the Town Protective. The one we do have can be Doctor, Bg, or Marshal. Two of which can only fend off one person a night leaving the Town Power to be killed by the other evil in town and leave us without a Protective or Power and maybe one dead evil in exchange.

Lookout and Transporter exist you know.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby ElusiveBelle » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:24 pm

I'm aware lookout and Trans exists. That's still potentially 2 dead town members, non cits by the way, in exchange for 1 evil. It is possible to get two evils but regardless it's still a gamble

I'd support a mayor after the time has passed but any other Power role should probably be more hesitant to reveal.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:24 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
James2 wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:Town Power =/= leadership ability. They may be the leader, but if they're incompetent we will not let them lead.

Honestly, I'm done arguing with you over this. If you wanna blindly follow the Town Power, kindly follow him into a Veteran and save us the trouble of having to deal with your bullshit.


Given that the town is 40% evil, it's not qualified to judge the competence of a confirmed town member. Scum will declare any leader incompetent.

Town is 40% evil and 60% good. Majority rules.
If we declare the Town Power incompetent, I will not allow them, whatever role they might be, to become one of the town leaders.


The masses can easily be lead to think wrongly by a vicious minority, especially when only a few townies are in need of convincing.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:30 pm

ElusiveBelle wrote:I'm aware lookout and Trans exists. That's still potentially 2 dead town members, non cits by the way, in exchange for 1 evil. It is possible to get two evils but regardless it's still a gamble

I'd support a mayor after the time has passed but any other Power role should probably be more hesitant to reveal.

The simple thought of a Lookout is enough to make it suicide to target a Town Power. Any sane mafia wouldn't go for it and neither would a sane NK. It's a catch all defender.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:35 pm

FirelightKnight wrote:
James2 wrote:Fire,

As a confirmed town, we can trust the Town Power with our roles and information.

And why do they need that? It's not difficult to lynch people who are acting scummy, we don't need someone to have a bunch of claims. Plus, we shouldn't rely on a confirmed town to carry us anyway. Even with claims and stuff, they can still be wrong. I remember being in a game where a confirmed townie led the town to lose because everyone was just relying on him.

James2 wrote:They need protection because of their value to town. Their value primarily comes from their leadership abilities, which are null if they don't reveal.

We'd have a protected power role who may or may not be able to lead well, meanwhile nobody else in the game is protected. Scum would have fun with that.
And again. Only Marshal can stop them from being roleblocked, so if the town power ends up being Ret they can get Consort blocked very easily. :/

Also, just putting this out there but unless protective rolls Marshal the power role wouldnt be safe from an Arsonist, either.

RockFire wrote:Alouvre is whispering to TiltedConedian and SirkCakez! They have two whispers remaining.

Why Cakez, Alouvre? They haven't even said anything yet.


Sometimes town members can act scummy. Having roles and night actions/results allows the Town Power to decide things more logically.

And I'm sure there's been a game where the TPower has led the town into the ground, but there've also been plenty of games where a leaderless town has driven itself to losing.

I very much doubt an NK would attack a confirmed Town Power. The chance of a lookout is too high.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:36 pm

I think it's best if everyone just ignores James until he's ready to stop speaking out of his ass.

Fire, do you understand what I meant by dayvig James now?
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby alouvre » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:37 pm

A 1 for 1 tradeoff is actually more harmful to scum than it is the town, since they don't start with majority. And, that's only the worst case scenario. Scum is usually scared out of their piss to target confirmed town, so in addition to role protection we also have that sweet WIFOM.

FirelightKnight wrote:Why Cakez, Alouvre? They haven't even said anything yet.

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ MEMES ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ

anyway since we're literally barfing out the same argument over and over again I'm off
see y'all when something new comes up ( ´ ▽ ` )ノ
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Tiltedcomedian » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:37 pm

James2 wrote:I very much doubt an NK would attack a confirmed Town Power. The chance of a lookout is too high.


Why only an NK and not a Mafia member?

FoS James.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby ElusiveBelle » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:39 pm

Kirize12 wrote:The simple thought of a Lookout is enough to make it suicide to target a Town Power. Any sane mafia wouldn't go for it and neither would a sane NK. It's a catch all defender.


That's taking a serious gamble on having a Lookout/Transporter, one of which can prove their existence but if people want Town Power to reveal the other should definitely not.

Also there is the idea of a witch to keep in mind, which can keep any Town Power with night abilities from being useful unless we have a Marshal.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby Kirize12 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:39 pm

Tiltedcomedian wrote:
James2 wrote:I very much doubt an NK would attack a confirmed Town Power. The chance of a lookout is too high.


Why only an NK and not a Mafia member?

FoS James.

Not to play Devil's Advocate, but I can see where he's coming from. NK's lose upon death whereas Mafia members do not.

Like I said, I still doubt anyone would be high enough to attack a Town Power until the possibility of a Lookout is weakened enough.
Factional balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because they cause Town to win a disproportionate amount

Strategical balance - understanding that whisper games are bad because there's no reason to use any other strategy

Structural balance - understanding that disabling the Mayor's whispers, despite it fixing whisper games, means that a player can't use a core mechanic of the game and is still bad

This matters - educate yourself.
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Re: 9D (CL) | Nostalgia | Day One (Another Tale)

Postby James2 » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:41 pm

Tiltedcomedian wrote:
James2 wrote:I very much doubt an NK would attack a confirmed Town Power. The chance of a lookout is too high.


Why only an NK and not a Mafia member?

FoS James.


Because the guy I was replying to specifically mentioned an NK.
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