9C (MC) - Game Over - Perfect Mafia + Executioner Win

[RetralMega]

/vote Kmenx

Seriously though, were you not reading when James took his hard claim back?

Before people jump his shit, realize it's not bolded and is clearly a joke.

[oliy]

I agree with 1 completely, especially after the monstrosity that went on called 9A. (why didn't I go after cakey, just whyyyyyyyyyyyy)
2 throws me off a little. He's telling us what we all should know what to do.
Because clearly 3 matters and we have a D1 lynch.
Agreed with 4, that's ad hominem.

I'm not sure how I feel about Rick. On one hand it seems like he's trying to progress town discussion on Day 1 and milk it for all it's worth, which I agree in, as I find that we can often use D1 to establish gut reads and can use it to the best of our abilities rather than a memefest. On the other hand, I'm not very trusting of what he said. The rest of his post looked fine to me, but this part, especially points 2 and 3, throw me off.

Also, just to quickly address this, it's Day 1. Obligatory opening post, chiming in any thoughts and stances I have about crap just because. Not everyone here is an experienced player either (hell, even point 1 had be said because of people like James )

For example, saying that I prefer not lynching, right now when we don't have a lynch at all, is probably better when there's not exactly much else to talk about. What else do you suppose doing- besides introducing yourself- beyond giving James shit for what he did, basically?

Not everyone follows point 1, point 2, point 3, or point 4. I'm saying those now, so that, later on in the game, if someone pulls that crap, I have a post I can quote them as I yell at them some more for things you agree that "we should all know what to do."

I think that first paragraph is unneeded, as Kirize makes those kinds of posts D1, I swear he did in SFM13.
This post gives me a gut scum vibe, but a town vibe from reading, it's odd. The pointless defense over a small comment like this is scummy and having reasons to accuse people can go either way, but it's towny from giving examples, reasonable examples, a confident tone/feel, making precautions and enforcing them, my mind is dead, as it's townlike but I have a gut read :\

Either way, I'm sleeping on it, maybe my brain will function normally again and I can get a 100% answer on this post.

Sorry if I don't post much or at all tomorrow, probably means I slept in :\

/vote Kmenx

Seriously though, were you not reading when James took his hard claim back?

Before people jump his shit, realize it's not bolded and is clearly a joke.

Thanks Retral
(Sorry that was rude)

[Sturps]

Typing this up with 8% remaining.
Going for the old Game Boy strats for shining a light on the screen with no background lighting to save power.

Petition to rename day title to 'Everyone is salty'

First two questions on the floor:

1. Is a Veteran hardclaim on Day 1 ever worth the WIFOM as Town, whether it actually IS your role or not?
2. Which evil roles would be insane enough to hardclaim it without a second thought right at the beginning of Day 1?

1) By answering this question, aren't we opening up *cringe* possibilities for the Mafia to have a further incentive to attack? That can be both good, but mainly bad. I don't think that's a wise point of discussion. And the WIFOM advantage is very situational, it's too risky no matter what the role is. Especially this early.

So...why did you answer the question again?
Honestly, I find no scum motivation with Rick's questions in this pots as the mafia have a private mafia chat to talk about the #possibilities. If he was scum, he'd most likely be neutral.

If we discuss too much about whether the WIFOM is worth it, it gives the Mafia less time to discuss privately and more time to create their best actions possible. Just as the Mafia's goal is to confuse the town and facilitate pointless discussion to waste time, leading to a panic lynch with little cooperative discussion, it is the Town's goal to give the Mafia as little hints as possible to extend their discussion time and force them to make hasty, unjustified decisions behind the scenes. The Neutral's goal is to take advantage of the weaknesses of both sides to suit ends meet. This dynamic equilibrium is what shapes the basis of each FM game.

I proceeded to answer the question because 1) I'm tired and just gave a generalised answer without revealing too much food for thought, and 2) If I didn't answer it after my first sentence, Rick would go in a long ksunty discussion that I just frankly don't have the time or patience to deal with for until a week and a half from now.

I just realized that the people here are way too awful for what I was trying to work.

Village Idiot. Someone who usually gets lynched because they don't know what they're doing. At all.

Typically pointed out to prevent Town mislynches ("maybe he's not scum, just an idiot"), but a VI can be scum as well.

Thanks for actually clarifying what that means.
Some of us, like James, actually don't know what it is.
(seriously thought it was FF6. Again, tired. Final Fantasy may or may not be on my mind)

Gonna call It a night, bye.

Hard claim please.

Just like I'll stop pretending you exist for now.

[Santa07]

Iggy can you modify the role-list so we get a day vig that will shoot james right now this second.

[dota2reporter]

hOI!
James is known for making bad plays
just like me
i regret all my decisions in tfm20

[ladd]

Good luck and have fun everyone, first of all.

I honestly have nothing to add on the James' situation that would not help scum. I will just tell you one personal thing, James: I will not follow you, regardless of what happens; I know you as a player and I feel much more comfortable following my own line of thoughts. With that being said, if you have anything to add to the conversation that does not regard your role, it's absolutely appreciated.



Reads wise, the James situation has not generated much.

And why would you just "shit" on James instead of creating discussion around it :\

All discussion created around James would be about his role, since he has done nothing but that, basically. Did you feel this type of discussion is more helpful to town or scum?

You don't have to trust my judgement. I trust my judgement, that is enough.

SIT DOWN.

Assuming you are telling us the truth, you are ONE PERSON in what is called a TEAM.

So no. There is not going to be any goddamn one man storms before Town really has the ability to organize themselves. Sit down, shut up, and guide us.

Guide us?

I am getting scum vibes from Retterime.

Are you Mafia or neutral?

What does that have to do with anything?

Is being mafia or neutral ever irrelevant? Anyway, I think you are referring to this question being out of context, am I right?
My problem with your few posts is that you went from joke posts ( which are alright D1, as long as it does not degenerate ) to this post here, without addressing anything of what happened between. The fact that you are asking this question is quite hypocrite, as you have yet to post anything relevant. I would like to know if any posts striked you as town or scum until now?

I would like Murat to answer this question as well.

Kirize is giving me town vibes, despite some of his arguments still being pretty bad ( but I took note of this as part of Kirize's meta ), it looks like his desire to scumhunt is genuine.

[ladd]

I would like Murat to answer this question as well.

And Persian.


Also, I would appreciate if someone who is able to can post a list of ISOs for Iggy to add to the OP.

[Sturps]

Also, I would appreciate if someone who is able to can post a list of ISOs for Iggy to add to the OP.

I just investigated what ISOs meant, and holy crap.
This is so much more useful.
FM has changed too much. ;_;

Back in my day, we had to just use the specific 'search post by author' function down the bottom and go through alphabetically, post by post, page by page.
And even then, not many people knew about it.
This is certainly going to make my analysis easier in the coming days.

[ladd]

Elaborating from my last post.

FIRST!

FIRST!

Actually, I was first. By about 6 posts.

First NON-MOD post, I mean lol.

I hardclaim as a FM player!

Gonna call It a night, bye.

Persian, knowing your meta, I would like you to try to contribute a bit more. The last post was not necessary and was in the middle of a ( partially ) serious discussion, it looks like a post for the sake of posting. Obviously it's still early, but I would appreciate if you could start giving opinions.

By the way, Neutral Benign cannot roll Shade nor Double, since someone asked, I think. It can only be Phantom, Survivor or Amnesiac.

FM has changed too much. ;_;

Not as much you think, really.

[Rickdaily12]

Really should be in bed, but my recovery and Daylight Savings has made me a bit more of an insomiac lately. Ugh.

Anyway, felt like this needed pointing out:

[x] ChubbyMooshroom9
(*) dota2reporter
[x] ItsmeCreature
James2
(*) Kirize12
(*) Kmenx
ladd
LordofFail
[x] Mroz4k
murat1996
oliy
PersianRugs
RetralMega
Retterime
Rickdaily12
(*) Santa07
Sturps
[x] teamalex
Varanus
(*) Watt2015

(*) - marks a person who has posted fewer than three times so far
[x] - marks a person who has not posted at all

Largely referencing ladd here, but everyone in general, let's be careful about tossing off reads, or "vibe" statements this early into the game. This day starts off with a hard claim right off the bat. Everyone's going to get blindsided by this. And also, I find behavior over time to be a lot more telling, than someone trying to sort out immediate chaos that spilled out in the first hours of Day 1.

Honestly, the most alignment indicative move on the floor right now is James' retracted hardclaim. I really don't think anyone can be determined any further from this. It's also tough to try to rule James out as Town, as well as argue what he's done to be Town-Motivated. Everyone else hasn't really had the chance to do anything as striking, so I guess my TL;DR here is, can we not start yelling Town! and Scum! vibes until half of the people can even get a foot in the door here? Because rushing in to try to get a sense of what people are doing on an introductory day isn't going to get us very far.

Scum are more than capable to give off the appearance of scum hunting, and Town are more than able to give off apathy vibes or screw up. So, because of that, I'd really like some more time for everyone's actions to be a lot more apparent before we even begin to talk about alignments.

[Santa07]

I'm just going to assume James is a stupid town and try to find other people who are being scummy. Since it's day one I'm not going to find anything too strong but I'll keep an eye out for any strange posts.

Getting the ISO extension makes things a lot easier, if no-one else has done it by then I can try to make a list of ISOs tomorrow.

[ladd]

Largely referencing ladd here, but everyone in general, let's be careful about tossing off reads, or "vibe" statements this early into the game. This day starts off with a hard claim right off the bat. Everyone's going to get blindsided by this. And also, I find behavior over time to be a lot more telling, than someone trying to sort out immediate chaos that spilled out in the first hours of Day 1.

Honestly, the most alignment indicative move on the floor right now is James' retracted hardclaim. I really don't think anyone can be determined any further from this. It's also tough to try to rule James out as Town, as well as argue what he's done to be Town-Motivated. Everyone else hasn't really had the chance to do anything as striking, so I guess my TL;DR here is, can we not start yelling Town! and Scum! vibes until half of the people can even get a foot in the door here? Because rushing in to try to get a sense of what people are doing on an introductory day isn't going to get us very far.

Scum are more than capable to give off the appearance of scum hunting, and Town are more than able to give off apathy vibes or screw up. So, because of that, I'd really like some more time for everyone's actions to be a lot more apparent before we even begin to talk about alignments.

Early D1 arguments are obviously going to be a bit of a reach, as their purpose is mostly to get discussion going, but I don't see the problem with trying to get a first impression on players. Reads change over time, anyway; so one thing does not exclude the other, quite the opposite.

I don't feel discussing James' hardclaim further will get us anywhere.

[Sturps]

I haven't been judging people too hard based on posts yet because it has only been 8 hours since the day started.
I noticed the four who didn't post yet, and assumed that they're either sleeping or busy since this started in the American Evening.
And others with lack of posts are likely going to wake up soon and post more.

After say, another 8 hours, or just after the first 24 hours ends, then we can call out the slackers.

[dota2reporter]

Day 1 shouldn't have very serious reads tbh
except if its not weebfm with 84 pages d1

[ladd]

Let's not turn today into a discussion about the validity of day one reads, if possible.

[iggyvolz]

Typo correction - day ends Thursday at 10, not Friday.

[Sturps]

Typo correction - day ends Thursday at 10, not Friday.

Okay, so the day is nearly halfway over. I was questioning to myself how a 48 hour Day 1 would seem appropriate.
A lot of people should be waking up and posting soon, so that will be great to look forward to.
I'll probably be asleep and only catch the last few hours of salt piles, don't make things too hard for each-other.

[murat1996]

Wow, I woke up and got thrown into the ground, or not.

Well Here is this

Rick seems to give more Town motivated discussion, and made a couple questions. So Town so far.

Kirize, came and went, and contradicted himself when pointing me "fencesitting" and he did the same thing kind of ,so gonna call it null for now.

Dota, is null cuz his post isn't to heavy right now. So null.

Oliy, seems to be town orientated, but gonna call it null for now.

James2, he's being a little weird, but have a jester feel from him, even if that isn't the case, although he did take that back so null for now.


That's the best I can do so far

[ladd]

Kirize, came and went, and contradicted himself when pointing me "fencesitting" and he did the same thing kind of ,so gonna call it null for now.

Could you elaborate a bit on this read? How does "contradicted himself" adds up to a null read?

Rick seems to give more Town motivated discussion, and made a couple questions. So Town so far.
Oliy, seems to be town orientated, but gonna call it null for now.

And, what is the difference between Oliy and Rick?

[Sturps]

Wow, I woke up and got thrown into the ground, or not.
Well Here is this
Rick seems to give more Town motivated discussion, and made a couple questions. So Town so far.
Kirize, came and went, and contradicted himself when pointing me "fencesitting" and he did the same thing kind of ,so gonna call it null for now.
Dota, is null cuz his post isn't to heavy right now. So null.
Oliy, seems to be town orientated, but gonna call it null for now.
James2, he's being a little weird, but have a jester feel from him, even if that isn't the case, although he did take that back so null for now.
That's the best I can do so far

Reduced the spacing because it was triggering me. #sorrynotsorry
But really, people can be really nitpicky on Day 1 when people have barely raised fingers. I'm guilty of it myself, as probably is everyone here.
So don't take things too much to mind when you think you're 'thrown into the ground'.

I personally think it's best to save the Reads discussion for when we have more time to observe and reflect on people's behaviours; namely, Day 2 and onwards.
Day 1 Reads are just general assumptions based on small actions, but can also draw out small behavioural tics.
If you don't mind me asking, why did you pick those 5 people to talk about briefly in particular?

But thank you for at least making the effort to post a decent amount of statements, as general and bland as they may be.

[murat1996]

Kirize, came and went, and contradicted himself when pointing me "fencesitting" and he did the same thing kind of ,so gonna call it null for now.

Could you elaborate a bit on this read? How does "contradicted himself" adds up to a null read?

Well I kinda felt that he took a post of mine a little too serious and took it as a bad thing.

Rick seems to give more Town motivated discussion, and made a couple questions. So Town so far.
Oliy, seems to be town orientated, but gonna call it null for now.

And, what is the difference between Oliy and Rick?

Rick's been in the discussions and created discussion more than oliy has, oliy only pointed out what kirize said and that's a about it, maybe I should say slightly town motivated instead?

[murat1996]

Wow, I woke up and got thrown into the ground, or not.
Well Here is this
Rick seems to give more Town motivated discussion, and made a couple questions. So Town so far.
Kirize, came and went, and contradicted himself when pointing me "fencesitting" and he did the same thing kind of ,so gonna call it null for now.
Dota, is null cuz his post isn't to heavy right now. So null.
Oliy, seems to be town orientated, but gonna call it null for now.
James2, he's being a little weird, but have a jester feel from him, even if that isn't the case, although he did take that back so null for now.
That's the best I can do so far

Reduced the spacing because it was triggering me. #sorrynotsorry
But really, people can be really nitpicky on Day 1 when people have barely raised fingers. I'm guilty of it myself, as probably is everyone here.
So don't take things too much to mind when you think you're 'thrown into the ground'.

I personally think it's best to save the Reads discussion for when we have more time to observe and reflect on people's behaviours; namely, Day 2 and onwards.
Day 1 Reads are just general assumptions based on small actions, but can also draw out small behavioural tics.
If you don't mind me asking, why did you pick those 5 people to talk about briefly in particular?

But thank you for at least making the effort to post a decent amount of statements, as general and bland as they may be.

That's because, I didn't expect to do EVERYONE as it's day 1.

And everyone else were kinda out there and not everyone is here, so my judgment isn't going to be that great atm.

And not everyone made a good noticeable comment yet either, or I'm just missing it, which I apologize, and I'm going to college at the moment, so it's gonna vary my activity, when it does, I'm in class or on bus or with friends to save up battery for my phone, but I'll try to say hello or my thoughts if I can.

[Sturps]

[quote="murat1996"
That's because, I didn't expect to do EVERYONE as it's day 1.

And everyone else were kinda out there and not everyone is here, so my judgment isn't going to be that great atm.

And not everyone made a good noticeable comment yet either, or I'm just missing it, which I apologize, and I'm going to college at the moment, so it's gonna vary my activity, when it does, I'm in class or on bus or with friends to save up battery for my phone, but I'll try to say hello or my thoughts if I can.[/quote]

I just find it curious that you chose to comment on Dota as 'noticeable', with 2 posts with seemingly no input, whereas you don't point out Kmenx for his little 'fencesitting' single post.

Again, just nitpicky things.

[Sturps]

That's because, I didn't expect to do EVERYONE as it's day 1.

And everyone else were kinda out there and not everyone is here, so my judgment isn't going to be that great atm.

And not everyone made a good noticeable comment yet either, or I'm just missing it, which I apologize, and I'm going to college at the moment, so it's gonna vary my activity, when it does, I'm in class or on bus or with friends to save up battery for my phone, but I'll try to say hello or my thoughts if I can.

I just find it curious that you chose to comment on Dota as 'noticeable', with 2 posts with seemingly no input, whereas you don't point out Kmenx for his little 'fencesitting' single post.

Again, just nitpicky things.

....always hit Preview.

[Sturps]

Shameful triple post /pageget by the way.
If people don't start popping up soon, I'll gladly go off to bed.