9B (SP) | Spilled Drink | Game Over (Town Wins)

[taylork2]

@Leyva
Alright Kmenx flip was interesting, I wasn't betting on them being mafia, but it's not very surprising. While I doubt Kmenx would defend another mafia member(from my personal experience in 8C) I'm not going to entirely rule it out, nor am I going to rule out the possibility you're a neutral.
Even though I'm more apprehensive about you being scum, I'd still like to hear an answer from my post I gave besides "that's terrible play" as Kmenx told me the same answer while pushing me as scum.
Spoiler:

I have a void scum read (becuase that's the strongest read you should give), pecentages are trash.

I don't like how you omgus'd CJ, who I'm pretty sure is town, and how you've self meta'd and upon many other of reasons, read through your posts.

Interesting, then you should know my playstyle/tendencies as town better than most as you did host and apparently noticed how I played for CFM13 as town.

/vote Taylork12

Speak. Now. You're more active as town, from seeing you play from a moderator view (CFM13), and from a player view in multiple games, you usually post more.

As scum though, I'm seeing what I see right now, dodging the thread. I've seen you lurk multiple times, and when you've posted it's been useless. Your posts are trash, and you overall play right now is garbage.

I'm not OMGUSing right now, but upon comparing this to your scumread for me in CFM14, I'm scumreading you now.
You're also implying from (becuase that's the strongest read you should give) that if you didn't have this belief then I'd likely be a higher(scummier) scum read.
And if I remember correctly, you threw around the phrase "they're scum" "They are scum" and similar phrases a lot in CFM14 with few cares about how scummy a scumreading should be.

Why do you care now, but not then?
Bonus:What's with the lack of citing reasoning from your personal experience?(You surely wouldn't want to forget a possibility that would seem plausible given your history with me.)

[KingOfEvil]

@KOE The lack of clean on the mafia kill makes me think witch there, rather than on the SK kill. Why would a witch witch someone to Kmenx unless they had a PR?

Kmenx did ask for an Escort on James yesterday, either for the sake of towncred alone or perhaps knowing that his own possible Consort could do that for a long haul towncred as well (meaning they could plan this at night, and Kmenx could easily bring up in the future that he was one of the earlier ones to mention the roleblocking of James).

Witch has to choose a target, yes? Why not someone who gained towncred by asking for an Escort on James.

As for no cleaning, I'm trying to look at any possible mafia combination that would forego a cleaning, which would either have Kmenx performing the kill last night, or saving cleans. Otherwise, you're right, a Witch on either the Janitor or mafia killing is more plausible.

[taylork2]

.. All I can salvage from Kmenx's ISO is that Taylor is unlikely to be mafia-scum.

Personally I feel like Leyva is less likely to be mafia than I originally suspected. Nothing changed about me since I am me.

I looked through Creature's past games, he has some tells, but it's best to keep quiet about them for now, but I'll write them down for later.

[EvilDeanius0]

@Eliah Have you been in a game with Kmenx? If so, which one?I dont remember correctly but I have been in 2 or 3, the only one I can think of now is Hydra 2

CFM14

As for no cleaning, I'm trying to look at any possible mafia combination that would forego a cleaning, which would either have Kmenx performing the kill last night, or saving cleans. Otherwise, you're right, a Witch on either the Janitor or mafia killing is more plausible.

The only reason I can think of for a janitor to perform the kill would be if a Caporegime was retraining someone.

[PersianRugs]

The only reason I can think of for a janitor to perform the kill would be if a Caporegime was retraining someone.

Maybe capo was retraining their mafioso. If that's the case, then the janitor was making the kill.

[PersianRugs]

The only reason I can think of for a janitor to perform the kill would be if a Caporegime was retraining someone.

Maybe capo was retraining their mafioso. If that's the case, then the janitor was making the kill.

and maybe witched.
Forgot to add that.

[PersianRugs]

Or the capo didn't train the mafioso, which I find unlikely and the mafioso was witched.

[TrueGent]

There's 4 mafia, even with a retrain they could have the 2nd RM perform the kill

[PolyesterHomes]

I slept peacefully.

[taylork2]

As for no cleaning, I'm trying to look at any possible mafia combination that would forego a cleaning, which would either have Kmenx performing the kill last night, or saving cleans. Otherwise, you're right, a Witch on either the Janitor or mafia killing is more plausible.

The only reason I can think of for a janitor to perform the kill would be if a Caporegime was retraining someone.

I'm not so certain, the capo would be roleblocking that member of the mafia, but there is another member of the mafia that could kill. If I was personally in the mafia, I would have made absolutely certain the janitor cleaning was being used that night and I believe Kmenx would have done the same.

However after mentioning the capo, I think it's possible Kmenx was being retrained to a janitor and didn't kill.

@Arc
If a mafia member dies the night they're being retrained by a capo, what do they show as upon flip?

[PolyesterHomes]

I did a little math for you folks.
There are 5 scum and 12 town
-2 town members per night, assuming scum don't kill each other
1: 10
2: 8
3: 6
We have 3 days until Lynche or lose, and 2 days until Mislynche and lose.

[taylork2]

I did a little math for you folks.
There are 5 scum and 12 town
-2 town members per night, assuming scum don't kill each other
1: 10
2: 8
3: 6
We have 3 days until Lynche or lose, and 2 days until Mislynche and lose.

That's also assuming a town killing/protection doesn't end up killing town.

[PersianRugs]

Or.....
If the retrainee dies, do they flip their previous role or the role they were retrained to?

[Arcthurus]

That's also assuming Met isn't a nerd, which would be incorrect.

A retrained mafia member flips their new role should they die the same night.

[EvilDeanius0]

So Kmenx may have been turned into a janitor last night.

[EvilDeanius0]

Actually, this may complicate things a little. Kmenx may not have been the Random Mafia slot, he could theoretically be ANY of the mafia slots.

[taylork2]

That's also assuming that there's 5, not 6, scum left.

Yupp.....
Spoiler: I'm dumb.
Assuming scum becoming non-scum killing pros, town(lynch-wise)goes full retard and completely lynches town, and town killing/protective/support don't get invovled:
2 mislynches and it's gameover for the town.

Although crosskills/scum attacking scum is likely to happen again, and protective/town killing getting involved is probable so I doubt the town will lose just from 2 straight mislynches right now meaning that we're probably going to be fine and that this conversation has been pretty much useless. >.>

Or.....
If the retrainee dies, do they flip their previous role or the role they were retrained to?

You mean capo retraining itself as janitor?
That's possible if the random mafia were good ones like consig, consort, prankster or the other tactical.(I don't consider disguiser and framer good roles in this setup.)

So Kmenx may have been turned into a janitor last night.

Yay we may have figured something out >.>

[taylork2]

Actually, this may complicate things a little. Kmenx may not have been the Random Mafia slot, he could theoretically be ANY of the mafia slots.

Nah, I really doubt they would retrain the tactical spot.

[PolyesterHomes]

Spoiler: >tfw you realize that there are 6, not 5 scum.
Alright, who do you guys think are scum? We should priorities who we want to lynch today.

[TrueGent]

Who do you think is scum Poly?

[KingOfEvil]

I forgot Capo was completely plausible too, as mentioned so far.

If Kmenx was being retrained, then it would have to be from something less desirable than a cleaning role.

Roles not likely to be retrained: GF, BM, Consig, Consort. Having a Janitor initially would also mean retraining another Janitor so soon may not make tactical sense. So, Kmenx may have been Mafioso, Framer, Disguiser, or Pranskter. A possible retraining may have came from desiring future cleans, or perhaps because there were multiple roles of the latter list rolled (Disguiser and Disguiser for example).

[Elastoid]

http://vocaroo.com/i/s15zFJ3Z0Hc5

I slept peacefully.

I want reads from Sam Jackson, considering you replaced a guy who posted, like, once. You replaced into a scummy slot, so say something useful.

I want reads from KingofEvil besides that James is being retarded. I know that.

From CJ's death I'm going to conclude that the mafia is invested in CJ/Rhazh/leyva vs taylor, so I want to spend most of our time dealing with that. I've got a strong feeling that we'll find our scum pursuing that lead. The associative tells from even a mislynch in that area would be useful, so that's where I'm going. I'll start things off in that direction with a

/vote taylor

because though I townread him earlier, that kill on CJ convinces me he should at least do some more explaining.

Eliah, we're not mislynching James. I'm probs going to die. That's all.

James, you remind me of this guy I ran into in Town of Salem. I was Retributionist and I wanted protection, so I announced that I was Jailor and wanted protection. That way, the Jailor would visit me N1, I'd tell him my actual role, and we'd continue from there. So the Jailor jailed me n1, as was planned, and he said "shhh don't bother telling me your role, I'm going to kill you tomorrow." What? I mean, I explained to him why I said what I said, it would be RETARDED of me to claim to be Jailor as scum, but he didn't give two shits. "Shh" he said.

Day 2 started and I explained to town what had happened. I'm Retributionist, I fakeclaimed so I could contact the Jailor, and now he's going to execute a townie. The TOWN said "Jailor leave him alive and let him revive our (dead) Spy. If he doesn't revive, we can lynch or execute." He said nothing in chat. Then the next night, he jailed me, clicked execute, and would not be convinced. "Shhh" he said. His death note said "claimed Jailor day 1 goodbye Godfather." When I flipped Retributionist, he started ranting and raving about how BAD I was, and how it was my fault, not his, that he had blown his ability and killed a townie. (Yes, he did this while he was alive and mafia killed him -- he wasn't worth protecting apparently.)

The point I'm trying to get at for everyone else is, he's not going to be convinced he's wrong by any amount of logic, because he wants to carry the game. The only way he will feel badass is if he IMMEDIATELY makes a read and gets it right. After he's wrong, he'll spend the rest of the game explaining that it was my fault for acting so scummy and that he's playing at a much higher level than anyone else.

There's nothing we can really do about it -- James is probably going to shoot me. We will learn nothing from this except that James is a bad player. We would learn nothing from lynching James, either, since there are slightly town-sided reasons to do it, so our best bet is to accept that either way, we're losing a townie. If we're going to lose a townie by wasting a Vig shot or wasting a lynch, I'd much rather use the lynch in a useful way so we can find scum. If we lynch James, we'll learn nothing from it.

[Elastoid]

Looking at that wall I can see the vote will be hard to catch for a mod skimming so

/vote taylor

[PolyesterHomes]

Who do you think is scum Poly?

Detemmienation twisted my words into something they did not accurately represent yesterday, which is one of the scummiest things you can do. I am somewhat confident they're scum.
Itsmecreature hasn't contributed much, but he's more of a null read.
Elastoid is a slight town read. Lots of townie posts.

[Elastoid]

Who do you think is scum Poly?

Detemmienation twisted my words into something they did not accurately represent yesterday, which is one of the scummiest things you can do. I am somewhat confident they're scum.
Itsmecreature hasn't contributed much, but he's more of a null read.
Elastoid is a slight town read. Lots of townie posts.

What did Dete/Rhazh twist you into saying?

I may have missed that. I just remember you saying you thought James was Neutral, and wanting you to back up your read with ANYTHING. How would you like to do that?