I'm not sure. I've been townreading you the whole time. In fact, the concept that you would HAVE to be scum for Moleland to be scum is what actually brought me around to the idea Moleland might be town.
That said, I'm going to try to use my time to scumhunt, and your "prove it" argument isn't very strong.
If you're town, that means a Sam/Poly/Eliah mafia in which Eliah is the GF. All of your reads on Eliah before Moleland's hardclaim would be correct, and Moleland's play would be that much worse.
I would also suspect someone said in mafia chat "If someone accuses you, act like you're willing to be lynched to prove you're town. Scum would never do that." Poly and Eliah BOTH made that play for towncred.
If you're town, that means one of Sam/Poly/Eliah thought of accusing you of being SK in the night in order to make you appear mafia, as they knew Sam would be bussing the SK.
teamalex wrote:I think Sam and Poly is TvS, Poly being the town.
Because of that one of us, you, Elastoid and me is the last mafia. Moon and Eliah are cleared of being RM/MT and I think Poly is town.
I think you are the blackmailer and Eliah/Moon is the GF, leaning Moon.
I don't have any evidence to show right now but I'm going to look for it in the evening.
I'll agree that non-GF mafia isn't Moon or Eliah, because it's impossible.
That leaves me, you and Poly as mafia, yes. I'm Cit, I'm reading you as town, and that leads me to conclude Poly is mafia. If you're mafia, you pretty much deserve to win imo, because you've played a solid game.
It's technically possible that neither moon nor Eliah is mafia -- that would put me as mafia, though, and I'm not. So, I'm looking at moon vs Eliah as the GF -- since you at least agree with me there, let's talk GF.
What's your take on GF!moonbird's claim of being healed?
Elastoid wrote:That leaves ONE OF me, you and Poly as mafia, yes. I'm Cit, I'm reading you as town, and that leads me to conclude Poly is mafia. If you're mafia, you pretty much deserve to win imo, because you've played a solid game.
Elastoid wrote:Eliah are you trying to claim VI so no one can scumread you?
Are you under the assumption that the whole town in this game was not VI? Anyhow Alex is still scumread for me, I am scepticle of you and poly is basicallly AFK so I'll take it as him accepting that he is mafia. So its you or alex now in my eyes.
Explain how you think Sam is town.
Explain why Moleland checked Sam and found him mafia. He's confirmed as the Sheriff -- did he lie in his will (and in the daytime conversations)? Explain why Sam claimed Investigator, when all the random towns and PRs have been accounted for.
SamuelJackson1972 wrote:They're being sarcastic incase you're not noticing it.
1) Shut up, you're scum. 2) If Eliah's statement of "the mafia are Alex, Elastoid, and Moonbird/Poly" was sarcastic, it went right over everyone's head.
SamuelJackson1972 wrote:They're being sarcastic incase you're not noticing it.
1) Shut up, you're scum. 2) If Eliah's statement of "the mafia are Alex, Elastoid, and Moonbird/Poly" was sarcastic, it went right over everyone's head.
I believe Evil's will: I think moon is actually immune and GF. I don't see how not giving that information, moon being healed, is useful to town. I believe that Evil knows that.
However he didn't agree with your Rhazh scumread, did he? He didn't support it whatsoever. Evil still thought that Eliah was the best candidate for SK, even in his last will he doesn't have Rhazh/Tilted marked as scum. Add these quotes from Evil which show the lack of information:
EvilDeanius0 wrote:I don't feel confident in a Poly lynch. I don't support a Moon lynch at all. Moleland/Sam/Creature/Alex maybe, Eliah would be preferred. I'm still not 100% convinced True isn't maf.
I'm trying to think what happened to the SK kill. Assuming they hit the GF, who would they have attacked? Kmenx wasn't exactly a strong town to attack but levya was so I'm not sure on their thought process.
True. Evil defended Moon and didn't support her lynch at all but it's for different reasons, which are other scumreads and the KoE investigation result, I believe.
EvilDeanius0 wrote:If there's a Capo, then who did the SK attack last night?
I believe that Evil thought that the GF was attacked at this point.
Don't forget guys, that we have a blackmailer in play. I believe Rhazh didn't lie about the message, there would be absolutely no motivation to do it from an SK perspective. It could be possible that the blackmailer caught the Doctor AND the SK on Moon at the same time. Personally, I don't see how town!Moonbird's reaction test would have worked at all in town's favor. Why would Rhazh scumread and pressure Moon with the knowledge of her being healed? I don't think Rhazh got that message. I believe that Rhazh had information that Moonbird was immune.
In fact, we don't know if Sam's investigation result was even correct. It might have been an elaborate ruse to mislynch Tilted for all I know.
Assuming Sam's result was correct and Tilted would be lynched, we, the town would be still in a shitty MyLo situation with no mislynches available. That means we would've had to perform 3 correct lynches in a row, an absolute perfect situation for Mafia, the situation we are currently in unfortunately.
Add all this to the fact, how she read Polyester: only Citizen/GF, sounds familiar, eh? Matches with the investigation results, which our possible Consig, Sam could have provided her with. I don't see a reason why moonbird would cross Poly's name out of the non-nightimmune mafia list. I agree much more with the wall that Evil put out earlier: Spoiler:
EvilDeanius0 wrote:The reasoning around the town-read revolves around the mafia kill on James. Working under the assumption that the mafia thought James was Vig (because I don't think anyone thought any different) and that he was going to shoot Poly, there would have been 3 outcomes:
- Poly is Immune (GF/maybe SK) In this situation, the mafia probably would not have killed James. He would have put in his will that he was shooting Poly and he would have been confirmed scum. Scum are already down by 3 and losing another member to a lynch would have been a big hit.
- Poly is Town In this case the mafia would have killed James. He would have had a death note confirming him as Vig and he wouldn't have been able to shoot anyone else, so he would have been a fairly safe kill.
- Poly is non-immune mafia This case has 2 more separate outcomes. James again would have been a confirmed townie, but he would still have the ability to shoot. Which leads to the point of who would he choose to shoot? The obvious answers are either Rhazh or Elastoid. If James was going to shoot one of these two people, and they were both town, I think the mafia would have risked keeping him alive another night, hoping to get one of them shot. They could have also hoped that James would hold one of them hostage and get another mislynch like what happened with Jord.
So now I can see 4 possibilities. The first 2:
- Poly is GF/SK that they knew about - Poly is mafia, Rhazh/Elastoid are both Town
In these 2 cases, I believe James would have been kept alive, so I'm kinda ruling them out. Which leaves:
- Poly is Town - Poly is mafia, One or both of Rhazh/Elastoid is Scum
These 2 options would mean James would have been killed. Either they kill him after he shoots another townie, or they sacrifice Poly to save Rhazh/Elastoid, who would have been a lot less likely to be lynched. This leads to the conclusion, that if Poly is scum, one of Rhazh/Elastoid is also scum, and I just don't see either of them as scum.
TL;DR - I think Poly is Town because James' reads are shit.
This is also a reason why I think Polyester is town. I also like Poly's metaread and the associations with Sam.
Alex, you're still ignoring the biggest question -- what does GF!moonbird gain from claiming attacked/healed?
There is no denying that the claim brought Taylor from scumreading TrueGent to scumreading moonbird. She ostensibly did it for a push onto Tilted, but that push failed completely, because that's not the way mechanics work (the SK would get a message saying immune if moonbird was attacked).
Now, I'm throwing this out there -- if moonbird WAS the GF, Tilted would know that, and yet, despite the GF pushing him, didn't bus her back saying "oh by the way I did attack moonbird and she was immune." Not that he'd be super believed, but it's worth noting.
More importantly, though, moonbird the GF knows that Sam is going to accuse Tilted. Can you imagine a mafia chat that goes:
Sam: "It's time to kill the SK. I'm going to call him out." BM: "By the way, moonbird, N3 you were visited by a Doctor AND an SK." moonbird: "Great, I'll ALSO call the SK out because I can claim attacked and healed once we kill the Doctor. That way we can accuse Rhazh/Tilted of being SK because he pushed on me during the day, proving he thought I was GF because I didn't die from his attack." Sam: "I see no problem with that whatsoever." BM: "Yes, I agree. Your plan is the best of plans, which will surely have no consequence."
Again, as you pointed out, after killing the SK, the town is in mylo. With people scumreading TrueGent as GF, that puts them in a pretty good spot. Mafia could keep TrueGent alive and kill Moleland, and then TrueGent is likely to hang as GF because the only living confirmed town says "rally behind moonbird" and "TrueGent is GF and that's all there is to it."
SamuelJackson1972 wrote:They're being sarcastic incase you're not noticing it.
1) Shut up, you're scum. 2) If Eliah's statement of "the mafia are Alex, Elastoid, and Moonbird/Poly" was sarcastic, it went right over everyone's head.
-snarky image snip because I don't have privileges.-
Generally, a confirmed scums claims of what's happening should not be disbelieved but to be completely ignored as to avoid WIFOM. He clearly got that response from a common sense store. Sam is confirmed scum because there is not a framer or transporter in play, and the confirmed sheriff got a mafia result on him. As you no doubt know, we lynch Sam today. I believe it is best to lynch Samuel today without proposing a lynch order, as that would allow mafia to use it to their advantage and increase the odds of a mislynche.
Eliah1102 wrote: Did he check sam?
Are you kidding me? Why would you not read the will? And besides that, Sam would be confirmed scum anyway due to their only being 1 RT slot left.
I'm going to disagree with you Taylor. I want this game to end as much as you, but I don't feel confident in any three mafia right now.
We've got a free lynch on Sam, then we learn something from who the mafia target. I know if I die in the night, for example, it'll change Alex's opinion. If Poly died, it'd change mine.
Given that no one agrees yet, let's take the free 100% confirmed mafia lynch, let them sweat about whom to kill, and move forward based on their decision. Everyone put your reads in your will, as in "If you're reading this, the mafia killed ME, which means XXX."
Elastoid wrote:I'm going to disagree with you Taylor. I want this game to end as much as you, but I don't feel confident in any three mafia right now.
We've got a free lynch on Sam, then we learn something from who the mafia target. I know if I die in the night, for example, it'll change Alex's opinion. If Poly died, it'd change mine.
Given that no one agrees yet, let's take the free 100% confirmed mafia lynch, let them sweat about whom to kill, and move forward based on their decision. Everyone put your reads in your will, as in "If you're reading this, the mafia killed ME, which means XXX."
I know Elastoid and normally I wouldn't, however have you seen the activity of the game, the mafia only has to kill the people who aren't completely inactive then it's virtually over.
Samuel's the first one, I think Alex is a likely member with the mafia unnecessarily calling him out in their deathnote. Sam knew who the sk was so it was a false push. Meaning either Alex is town, or mafia getting carried ahead of themselves this game.
The mafia knew our plan could hurt them so they decided to kill Mole meaning they thought Mole could have found one of their members, and I think Alex would be one of them.
I think I'll go with that, the plan will be we lynch those two, if the game doesn't end then the survivors will have to decide the lynch, I'll put down suspects and reasons in my will, as should everyone else.
![[Forum Mafia XI] Winner](./images/ranks/flair-fm11.png "[Forum Mafia XI] Winner")
