9B (SP) | Spilled Drink | Game Over (Town Wins)

[teamalex]

Well. Tilted just confirmed themselves as scum with a Fake Lookout claim.

The fact that Sam is pushing them means they aren't mafia as well.

Why did you make this post, especially the second part? You had a mafia result on him.

[Moleland]

Well. Tilted just confirmed themselves as scum with a Fake Lookout claim.

The fact that Sam is pushing them means they aren't mafia as well.

Why did you make this post, especially the second part? You had a mafia result on him.

I didn't realise Tilted was trolling at that point

Because Sam wouldn't claim a team mate was SK and tilted could claim Citizen. So lookout was a scum admission

[Elastoid]

Well. Tilted just confirmed themselves as scum with a Fake Lookout claim.

The fact that Sam is pushing them means they aren't mafia as well.

Why did you make this post, especially the second part? You had a mafia result on him.

I didn't realise Tilted was trolling at that point

Because Sam wouldn't claim a team mate was SK and tilted could claim Citizen. So lookout was a scum admission

But if you're town, you KNOW that Sam is mafia. A soft read wouldn't mean shit.

Jesus, I can't believe I forgot about that one, alex. Good catch.

[Elastoid]

Okay, I'll try to respond to Moleland's criticism

1) My case against you was that you claimed to be against a lynch while engineering its completion. Let me give you an example -- how would you feel if, say, teamalex kept saying, "I don't think Moleland is scum," then voted you and convinced someone else to vote for you, all the while saying "I'm going to say I told you so when he flips town?" If you don't think that's scummy, I don't know what to tell you... you're wrong. Mafia WANT to create a mislynch, but DON'T want to be held accountable for engineering one, so they're the most likely to approach a mislynch in just that way.
2) You need to decide EARLY in the day whether you're willing to reveal or not, and then stick to it. This is because new information is hard for towns to analyze, so they ideally get the new information at the beginning of the day, and spend the rest of the day discussing it. Supplying new information at the end is just bad for town. If you decided, at the beginning of the day, "I am willing to see a mislynch of Eliah in order to stay hidden," then you need to stick to your guns. If you were to reveal at the beginning of Day 5, rather than the end of Day 4, then town has all the time they need to discuss your claim, AND you can be sure mafia don't have time to put together a good CC. So, yeah, your claim's timing is suspect.
3) I think your softs are consistent with your night action list. I don't think they're convincing, but I don't see any factual errors in them. The problem I have with them is that they're just noise. There's nothing in them that mafia COULDN'T have done. Thus, I can't even take them as evidence, because I can't say "it's unlikely that mafia would have posted this way." As for thinking you're smart but dumb... I think that you're someone who understands that a lie is more convincing with evidence, but doesn't understand which evidence will be most convincing.
4) Your explanation isn't an explanation, it's an admission. You ADMIT that your actions were bad and didn't properly work to a town objective. You've never said "here's what I was thinking." I suspect you didn't because you know how bad that answer would be: "Here's what I was thinking. I figured Jord was probably going to get lynched, because I didn't really think too much about it. I decided I didn't want to stick out or go against the grain, so I jumped on the wagon of the player who was most likely to get lynched. Still, I didn't want people to think I was mafia, so I made sure to tell everyone I disagreed with the lynch." If you said something like THAT, I'd at least understand your motives, and I'd be able to question you about them -- WHY did you value A over B, etc? But instead, your answer was, "you're right, that doesn't make sense." That's NOT an explanation.
Sam's explanation, on the other hand, was more direct -- "I figured Jord wasn't going to get lynched." He was clearly wrong, and we called him out for it. But we now have a story that we can weigh as reasonable or not. You never provided one.
5) Sam's behavior, like yours, was questionable at times. He, unlike you, provided reasoning for why he did what he did. His reasoning was flawed, which is why I think his play was bad, but we can draw a direct line between reasoning and actions. I agree, his claim of Citizen was unnecessary, but he gave an explanation. Both you and Sam were clearly trying to fly under the radar -- one because he's scum, the other because he's a PR. Sam's willing to admit he was trying to avoid attention, you're calling him out for it while you were basically doing the same thing (in a different way) and you're unwilling to explain fully your own motives.
6) You've OMGUSed me. I mean, really you say you suspect I'm scum because I'm defending Sam, but I'm not really DEFENDING Sam, so much as attacking you. Sam's case seems shaky, yours seems shakier, and Sam gave answers where you did not. Do you believe I'm scum for any reason other than that I don't believe you? (Actually, let me get into those arguments you made.)
7) You're referring to my post where I asked Gent how he would respond to 11 Cit claims and a Doc claim as being evidence I had foreknowledge of there being a Doc. You're incredulous that this could be a coincidence. You can clearly see the intent of my post, though, as an argument against a massclaim. I was stating that scum benefit more from a massclaim than town do. If I had expected someone to claim Sheriff, with evidence, that might have changed, but the truth is, it's NOT pro-town to have a PR claim with no guaranteed protective, and nothing to gain from it.
As to my expecting a CC, like I said, your claim was scummy. I didn't like your timing. I figured if you were lying, someone should come forward and claim. I can even show my townsided thought process behind it: if mafia were going to counterclaim, they would already have one prepared in the night, so I wasn't giving any cues to the mafia -- however, a quiet town member might have needed prompting to claim. If, say, teamalex or Poly was an Investigative role, I worried they might have kept quiet with the dead Doctor, so I made sure town knew that now was the time for a claim.
8) I've no objection to being scumread if it makes sense, but again, it doesn't. Your argument that my speculation about 11 Cit claims and a Doc claim meant that I must have knowledge of a Doctor is especially specious -- it's like you're TRYING to find reasons to find me scummy, rather than looking at real evidence.
9) Sam's results were mostly on dead people -- Poly is the only living person he's investigated. If he were to die, it would deprive us of his ability to check more people, but would confirm NO ONE, because there's even suspicion that Poly is the GF (which I doubt). You, on the other hand, could confirm moonbird, TrueGent and Eliah with your death, which gives us a much smaller pool of suspects to work with (especially with taylork confirmed). If you suicide and flip town, we lynch Sam, then we'd have at least two confirmed NS people. We'd have associatives to go by as well -- moonbird, for instance, had been insisting Sam is scum the whole time.
It's likely that my plan was biased by my thinking you're scum and therefore Sam is not, but in a vacuum, we just learn more from your death than from Sam's. If we lynch you and you're scum (which is my expectation), then what are we left with? Poly is either Cit or GF, taylor is Vet, and we know nothing else. Sam probs dies that night, and then we're in mountainous mylo TWICE.

[Elastoid]

Shit, in quickreply I didn't see how wallsy that was. Edited for format (not content):

1) My case against you was that you claimed to be against a lynch while engineering its completion. Let me give you an example -- how would you feel if, say, teamalex kept saying, "I don't think Moleland is scum," then voted you and convinced someone else to vote for you, all the while saying "I'm going to say I told you so when he flips town?" If you don't think that's scummy, I don't know what to tell you... you're wrong. Mafia WANT to create a mislynch, but DON'T want to be held accountable for engineering one, so they're the most likely to approach a mislynch in just that way.

2) You need to decide EARLY in the day whether you're willing to reveal or not, and then stick to it. This is because new information is hard for towns to analyze, so they ideally get the new information at the beginning of the day, and spend the rest of the day discussing it. Supplying new information at the end is just bad for town. If you decided, at the beginning of the day, "I am willing to see a mislynch of Eliah in order to stay hidden," then you need to stick to your guns. If you were to reveal at the beginning of Day 5, rather than the end of Day 4, then town has all the time they need to discuss your claim, AND you can be sure mafia don't have time to put together a good CC. So, yeah, your claim's timing is suspect.

3) I think your softs are consistent with your night action list. I don't think they're convincing, but I don't see any factual errors in them. The problem I have with them is that they're just noise. There's nothing in them that mafia COULDN'T have done. Thus, I can't even take them as evidence, because I can't say "it's unlikely that mafia would have posted this way." As for thinking you're smart but dumb... I think that you're someone who understands that a lie is more convincing with evidence, but doesn't understand which evidence will be most convincing.

4) Your explanation isn't an explanation, it's an admission. You ADMIT that your actions were bad and didn't properly work to a town objective. You've never said "here's what I was thinking." I suspect you didn't because you know how bad that answer would be: "Here's what I was thinking. I figured Jord was probably going to get lynched, because I didn't really think too much about it. I decided I didn't want to stick out or go against the grain, so I jumped on the wagon of the player who was most likely to get lynched. Still, I didn't want people to think I was mafia, so I made sure to tell everyone I disagreed with the lynch." If you said something like THAT, I'd at least understand your motives, and I'd be able to question you about them -- WHY did you value A over B, etc? But instead, your answer was, "you're right, that doesn't make sense." That's NOT an explanation.
. . . . . . .Sam's explanation, on the other hand, was more direct -- "I figured Jord wasn't going to get lynched." He was clearly wrong, and we called him out for it. But we now have a story that we can weigh as reasonable or not. You never provided one.

5) Sam's behavior, like yours, was questionable at times. He, unlike you, provided reasoning for why he did what he did. His reasoning was flawed, which is why I think his play was bad, but we can draw a direct line between reasoning and actions. I agree, his claim of Citizen was unnecessary, but he gave an explanation. Both you and Sam were clearly trying to fly under the radar -- one because he's scum, the other because he's a PR. Sam's willing to admit he was trying to avoid attention, you're calling him out for it while you were basically doing the same thing (in a different way) and you're unwilling to explain fully your own motives.

6) You've OMGUSed me. I mean, really you say you suspect I'm scum because I'm defending Sam, but I'm not really DEFENDING Sam, so much as attacking you. Sam's case seems shaky, yours seems shakier, and Sam gave answers where you did not. Do you believe I'm scum for any reason other than that I don't believe you? (Actually, let me get into those arguments you made.)

7) You're referring to my post where I asked Gent how he would respond to 11 Cit claims and a Doc claim as being evidence I had foreknowledge of there being a Doc. You're incredulous that this could be a coincidence. You can clearly see the intent of my post, though, as an argument against a massclaim. I was stating that scum benefit more from a massclaim than town do. If I had expected someone to claim Sheriff, with evidence, that might have changed, but the truth is, it's NOT pro-town to have a PR claim with no guaranteed protective, and nothing to gain from it.
. . . . . . .As to my expecting a CC, like I said, your claim was scummy. I didn't like your timing. I figured if you were lying, someone should come forward and claim. I can even show my townsided thought process behind it: if mafia were going to counterclaim, they would already have one prepared in the night, so I wasn't giving any cues to the mafia -- however, a quiet town member might have needed prompting to claim. If, say, teamalex or Poly was an Investigative role, I worried they might have kept quiet with the dead Doctor, so I made sure town knew that now was the time for a claim.

8) I've no objection to being scumread if it makes sense, but again, it doesn't. Your argument that my speculation about 11 Cit claims and a Doc claim meant that I must have knowledge of a Doctor is especially specious -- it's like you're TRYING to find reasons to find me scummy, rather than looking at real evidence.

9) Sam's results were mostly on dead people -- Poly is the only living person he's investigated. If he were to die, it would deprive us of his ability to check more people, but would confirm NO ONE, because there's even suspicion that Poly is the GF (which I doubt). You, on the other hand, could confirm moonbird, TrueGent and Eliah with your death, which gives us a much smaller pool of suspects to work with (especially with taylork confirmed). If you suicide and flip town, we lynch Sam, then we'd have at least two confirmed NS people. We'd have associatives to go by as well -- moonbird, for instance, had been insisting Sam is scum the whole time.
. . . . . . .It's likely that my plan was biased by my thinking you're scum and therefore Sam is not, but in a vacuum, we just learn more from your death than from Sam's. If we lynch you and you're scum (which is my expectation), then what are we left with? Poly is either Cit or GF, taylor is Vet, and we know nothing else. Sam probs dies that night, and then we're in mountainous mylo TWICE.

[teamalex]

Sam, night result ASAP please.

[SamuelJackson1972]

Sam, night result ASAP please.

I slept peacefully. Eliah is Citizen/Godfather.

[SamuelJackson1972]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME TAYLORK??!!?!?!

YOU LET ME WASTE A NIGHT VISITING YOU AND YOU DON'T ALERT???? I HATE THIS TOWN??!!1 AAAAHHHHHHHHH

[Moleland]

Why did you make this post, especially the second part? You had a mafia result on him.

I didn't realise Tilted was trolling at that point

Because Sam wouldn't claim a team mate was SK and tilted could claim Citizen. So lookout was a scum admission

But if you're town, you KNOW that Sam is mafia. A soft read wouldn't mean shit.

Jesus, I can't believe I forgot about that one, alex. Good catch.

I do know Sam is mafia. Jesus Christ. READ IT AGAIN!

I didn't trust Sam's result 100% but Tilted claiming lookout would mean he was lying and therefore scum. Since Sam wouldn't bus a team mate he would be the SK. Seriously

[Moleland]

Sam, night result ASAP please.

I slept peacefully. Eliah is Citizen/Godfather.

So you are saying he is Gf, correct?

[Moleland]

Ok Elastoid. One more time.

I didn't plan to reveal. I was going to see if I could find the SK. I tried pushing the spotlight on Sam where I could, and pushing it away from Eliah, and it seemed to be going well in that. I watch a tv show

I come back and See Eliah at L-1. Well. That's bad. I already know he is N/S and no way will he flip GF. I learn nothing from him being lynched. I was determined not to repeat my previous mistake and allow someone I believed was town be lynched. I wish I could of prepared my reveal better, but it was paniced as, again he was at lynch - 1.

Stop fencesitting. If I am scum, Eliah is as well. OR I am sheriff, and Sam is consig. Eliah is cit, Team is (prolly) cit. Poly is someone cit (Though I wonder why he hasn't been prodded... maybe he is whispering people as Bmer? ugh. Poly. Why you so bad?). Taylork is Vet. Moon would be the GF and you would be Bmer (I will check that tonight - Though if sam is lynched I won't live to report back). That's why I want the GF lynched today. Neither myself or Sam could report back who the GF is.

[teamalex]

Interesting.

Mole, did you mean that Tilted wasn't mafia because Sam was pushing them? If so, you should write out names next time.

I'll reread while we're waiting for Taylor.

[Moleland]

Interesting.

Mole, did you mean that Tilted wasn't mafia because Sam was pushing them? If so, you should write out names next time.

I'll reread while we're waiting for Taylor.

Yes. Tilted wouldn't be mafia because Sam wouldn't be advocating a lynch on team mate at that point.

[Elastoid]

Interesting.

Mole, did you mean that Tilted wasn't mafia because Sam was pushing them? If so, you should write out names next time.

I'll reread while we're waiting for Taylor.

Yes. Tilted wouldn't be mafia because Sam wouldn't be advocating a lynch on team mate at that point.

So when you said "they" in "they aren't mafia as well," you meant TILTED isn't mafia?

Not that Sam isn't?

Jesus, man. That's just... objectively bad. You're starting to convince me you COULD be just a really, really, really shitty town. I have to go reread my interrogations/evidence from earlier.

[SamuelJackson1972]

Interesting.

Mole, did you mean that Tilted wasn't mafia because Sam was pushing them? If so, you should write out names next time.

I'll reread while we're waiting for Taylor.

Yes. Tilted wouldn't be mafia because Sam wouldn't be advocating a lynch on team mate at that point.

As if me providing proof of the SK can be bussing of a teammate, doesn't take a while to figure out.
also, may I ask you why you thought I was lying about my results, yet you found tilted most likely to be SK, what sense does that make?

@Sam I'm not trusting your results at all m8

@Sam I'm not trusting your results at all m8

Then by that logic I'm not the consig.

A good mafia wouldn't bus the SK at this point in the game

fair enough.

Uh-huh. Sure.

That being said, Tilted could indeed be the SK. I don't think it is Poly or Team (Other 2 mafia maybe?)

wait, what? isn't that contradictory to what you said earlier?

[Moleland]

Ahh... now I see the confusion. They was actually poorly used here. I tend to use instead of he or she as I'm usually too lazy to check

[Elastoid]

Ahh... now I see the confusion. They was actually poorly used here. I tend to use instead of he or she as I'm usually too lazy to check

See, this is the correct way to respond to a false scum accusation -- to clarify, and, if the mistake was legitimate, NOT to OMGUS for it.

Now, you see my explanation of how you NEVER showed your reasoning with Jord?

[Moleland]

Yes. Tilted wouldn't be mafia because Sam wouldn't be advocating a lynch on team mate at that point.

As if me providing proof of the SK can be bussing of a teammate, doesn't take a while to figure out.
also, may I ask you why you thought I was lying about my results, yet you found tilted most likely to be SK, what sense does that make?

@Sam I'm not trusting your results at all m8

Then by that logic I'm not the consig.

A good mafia wouldn't bus the SK at this point in the game

fair enough.

Uh-huh. Sure.

That being said, Tilted could indeed be the SK. I don't think it is Poly or Team (Other 2 mafia maybe?)

wait, what? isn't that contradictory to what you said earlier?

Oh no. I changed my mind and thought about it as the day went on. How scummy

[Moleland]

Ahh... now I see the confusion. They was actually poorly used here. I tend to use instead of he or she as I'm usually too lazy to check

See, this is the correct way to respond to a false scum accusation -- to clarify, and, if the mistake was legitimate, NOT to OMGUS for it.

Now, you see my explanation of how you NEVER showed your reasoning with Jord?

Earlier you found my response town like. Now you don't...

It is true, part of me didn't want to rock the boat too hard as a) I thought Jord was doomed and b) I didn't want to be killed at night. Poor reasoning yes - but I was one of many people who did the same. In retrospect, I should have stood firm and insisted Jord have a chance to prove himself.

Sidenote: Is anyone else suspicious that Poly wasn't prodded yesterday? (Game day)

[Elastoid]

Ahh... now I see the confusion. They was actually poorly used here. I tend to use instead of he or she as I'm usually too lazy to check

See, this is the correct way to respond to a false scum accusation -- to clarify, and, if the mistake was legitimate, NOT to OMGUS for it.

Now, you see my explanation of how you NEVER showed your reasoning with Jord?

Earlier you found my response town like. Now you don't...

It is true, part of me didn't want to rock the boat too hard as a) I thought Jord was doomed and b) I didn't want to be killed at night. Poor reasoning yes - but I was one of many people who did the same. In retrospect, I should have stood firm and insisted Jord have a chance to prove himself.

Sidenote: Is anyone else suspicious that Poly wasn't prodded yesterday? (Game day)

The mea culpa sounded town-like. Then you never explained your reasoning. You finally did, just now, after I fucking spoon-fed it to you.

Advice for future, for both town! and scum!Moleland: don't be so unwilling to explain yourself. It makes you look scummy.

I'm going to read it over again. I STRONGLY believe we have to lynch one of the two of you today, or nolynch. I lean towards the lynch.

Right now, I know, for a fact, that if I flip a coin on you/Sam, I will find scum 50% of the time. Obv I'm not looking to RNG shit irl, but it makes a Moleland/Sam lynch WAY better than any other.

If you think Moonbird is GF, explain to me GF moonbird's reasoning for claiming attacked and healed.

[Moleland]

In short. Moonbird messed up.

In slightly less short: Moonbird was worried when she read Evil's will and decided to claim attacked and healed so we wouldn't ask her too many questions about why she didn't say so earlier (Bad reaction test? What kind of excuse is that?!). Moonbird didn't realise that a doctor wouldn't know if an immune target was attacked (Which is why evil didn't note it down.) Perhaps moon didn't read the will closely enough?

----------------------

I'm actually back to thinking Poly is the other mafia member... Arc - would answering or making Blackmailer whispers count as being active, or does thread activity only matter?

Town in my view
Vet: Taylork
Sheriff: Me
Cit: Team
Cit: Eliah (Ugh. Such a bane on my life you have been this game.)
Cit: Elastoid (Poly)

---------------

GF: Moon
Consig: Samuel
Bmer: Poly (Elastoid)

I'm actually leaning towards a No-lynch so I can check my suspicions on the last mafia slot. But I doubt I'll survive long enough to do that.

[Elastoid]

In short. Moonbird messed up.

In slightly less short: Moonbird was worried when she read Evil's will and decided to claim attacked and healed so we wouldn't ask her too many questions about why she didn't say so earlier (Bad reaction test? What kind of excuse is that?!). Moonbird didn't realise that a doctor wouldn't know if an immune target was attacked (Which is why evil didn't note it down.) Perhaps moon didn't read the will closely enough?

Moonbird was worried about what?

See, this is the thing that makes GF moonbird so difficult to believe.

Before moonbird's post, Taylork is reading TrueGent as Godfather based on the missing kill. He's posting it in bold all caps and demanding that everyone fall in line behind that read. It's drowning a lot of shit out. In fact, Taylork says "We need everyone to rally behind moonbird," thus implying that she's the only one he really trusts.

Moonbird states her claim and pushes hard on Tilted.

Then, Taylork withdraws his read on TrueGent (as it required a missing kill). He pushes hard on moonbird, saying she must be godfather. Others start to sheep this opinion, which made a full-on mislynch very possible.

Meanwhile, DURING ALL THIS, Sam posts his TiltedComedian result. This is the driving force behind Tilted's lynch -- not moonbird's post. Thus, moonbird's post accomplished only one real thing -- it prevented a game-losing mislynch on TrueGent.

Remember, if moonbird is GF, and Tilted attacked her and knew she was immune, then Tilted is the ONLY one who could know he attacked her. She would only have to worry about the dying words of a lynched SK -- not a credible source. She CHOSE to say that she lied to town, exposing her to potential votes.

So again, I ask you -- how does this make sense as GF?

[Arcthurus]

General Rules:
2) Activity - If a player hasn't posted in 36 hours, they'll be prodded. Time alloted to respond to a prod is 24 hours. Being prodded twice means force-replacement.

[Moleland]

Thanks arc...

People mess up and panic all the time. If she is godfather as I believe, she was lucky to get that role and not another scum because two TIs checked her night 1...

[Elastoid]

Thanks arc...

People mess up and panic all the time. If she is godfather as I believe, she was lucky to get that role and not another scum because two TIs checked her night 1...

What caused her to panic?

That's the question. She was being townread, she had nothing to panic about.

I mean, town!moonbird might have panicked that the town was in mylo and the missing kill might have led Taylor to a mislynch of Gent. Scum!moonbird has no reason to panic.