SFM13: Co5 - Game Over - Town, Executioner, Phantom Win

[Mindslayer]

Alright i suck at getting discussion going D1, but I'll try. Answer these 3 questions when you can plz:
1. How do you think we should handle hardclaims, considering council may not wanna lynch the same person we think is scummy?
testa's quasi voting is alright if there's someone to keep track of the votes. i dont see how handling hcs are different from any other games. we just ask them who they visited and why, their reads, and their defense. if they do pick someone else to lunch, then im sure the council had some good reason to spare them
2. Any thoughts about the role list?
possibility for two bombers. also, a lot of rt claimspace for scum, but i guess citizen+ can counteract that.
3. Should we mass claim? If yes, when?
that depends on the role list. if we end up claiming while there's one or more witches around, then we'll have a bad time. i do support massclaim D3-4-5 since by then since either town should be about to win or reaching my/lylo

You should answer your own question as well.

Also to the "will the council benefit scum or town"
town since scum cant hammer (looks at NFM 2) and i assume the council is able to override us if they agree that we're about to mislynch a townie

[RHawkeye]

There is no overriding since we don't have votes at all, and the Council are the ones who decide to lynch.

[Mindslayer]

There is no overriding since we don't have votes at all, and the Council are the ones who decide to lynch.

i mean by if we're sure X is scum, but he actually is town. in a regular game, he would've been killed already, but the council may feel like this is a mislynch and decide to get someone else instead.

[ladd]

You are right, here I go:
1. My policy is to never lynch people who have not claimed with a few exceptions. Unless we have a confirmed scum, I would like to give the council 2 options which means 2 claims.
2. A lot depends on what the neutral spot roll, it's pretty variable there since bomber has been moved to NE. 4 Rt is not a lot of claims space imo, quite the opposite considering that citizen is not as safe a claim as before.
3. It really depends on how the game goes, I don't like early mass claims, but considering we have no whisper it's gonna be necessary. I think from D3 on, we should ponder doing it, after evaluating the situation.
4. I think it favors scum honestly, I bet people are gonna get lazy during the day and just let the council handle it. I hope everyone remains engaged. Plus there may be coordination problems,

[cmitc1]

if they could talk we would know the council team lmao
so they basically bulletproof blackmailed lawyers

Question to all players - what will you do if someone scumslips?

Lynch them? What kind of question was that?

Btw people are forgetting something same amount of town vs same amount of scum isn t an instaloss for town because scum can t over throw the council at 4 vs 4 or 5 vs 5

Who forgot that? Anyway it's a bad spot to be in, and I don't want us to find ourselves in that condition.

if they could talk we would know the council team lmao

I didn't say "chat". I said "a chat". There's a large difference between the two, and I suggest you figure it out before you think you're being smart.

Chill.



Anyway, testa's idea is too complicated imo. I think we should see how it goes, if we have a confirmed scum it's cool, if there is some doubt we can make the top 2 scum hardclaim. Also no, hardclaim is not the ultimate defense, but sometimes it can help. My general policy is not to lynch people who have not claimed a role, unless there is 100% sure evidence they are scum.

its cool to see we have started.

Hi and:

Alright i suck at getting discussion going D1, but I'll try. Answer these 3 questions when you can plz:
1. How do you think we should handle hardclaims, considering council may not wanna lynch the same person we think is scummy?
2. Any thoughts about the role list?
3. Should we mass claim? If yes, when?

1-really depends on the role list, and the claim, and other claims.
2-its fine? (not sure what exactly your asking here)
3- i would say yes, i hear mass claiming 3-4 is good, but i would not mind doing it sooner.

[Varanus]

I see no reason why we shouldn't just treat this like a normal game. The main differences here are that scum can't quickhammer, and they don't win when they are equal in numbers to town.

[Segaco]

Hello guys.

[ladd]

Alright i suck at getting discussion going D1, but I'll try. Answer these 3 questions when you can plz:
1. How do you think we should handle hardclaims, considering council may not wanna lynch the same person we think is scummy?
2. Any thoughts about the role list?
3. Should we mass claim? If yes, when?

@kirize now that i remember last time I saw you posting that rules list you were mafia, are you mafia again man?

No, I am no Mafia. I will not say more.

You are not mafia but you are not town either? From your answer it looks like you softclaimed neutral.

[dota2reporter]

Alright i suck at getting discussion going D1, but I'll try. Answer these 3 questions when you can plz:
1. How do you think we should handle hardclaims, considering council may not wanna lynch the same person we think is scummy?
Give them 1 more night to confirm themselves and move on - if they confirm themselves, good, confirmed townie. If not, let the council lynch them.
2. Any thoughts about the role list?
town still got it in the bag, considering cits are buffed.
3. Should we mass claim? If yes, when?
when the town is in bad situation, not early.

[ladd]

I am just trying to get discussion going mate and D1 I am no good at it, what exactly you don't like?

[Segaco]

Guys, just a question:

Is the council an actual role?
Are they players like us?

[murat1996]

Oh shit I forgot about this -.-

[ladd]

I am just trying to get discussion going mate and D1 I am no good at it, what exactly you don't like?

[Varanus]

Guys, just a question:

Is the council an actual role?
Are they players like us?

No. They're sorta off who knows where lording over this game.

[Hiphoplog]

The Council is not one of the 20 players in the game.
They are a separate entity of 5 players chosen by the moderator(s), I don't know if Iggy asked other mods for help deciding. They can't be targeted or talk.

[Segaco]

Okay then.

[Jfire]

Hey guys, I'm back here. Didn't know this started.

But if anyone votes to overthrow the council, dear council. I recommend you get them out of here.

[Jfire]

What do we do? We can't get a town leader since the council are the people voting.

But we still need a town leader to gather roles and scumhunt for the council.

(I'm not good at doing that)

[RHawkeye]

We scum hunt, we give our reads, we do as much as possible for the Council to be able to make the best lynch decision.

Imo in the final 24 hours of a day we want a list of reads, and a list of top 3 scum, from every player. Day 1 is the exception since there isn't a lynch.

[Lokiben]

I agree with ladd. The point-allocating system seems like a needlessly complicated way to choose a lynch. I've never heard of a system of quantifying scumminess to determine a lynch before. Considering the extra step removed the town is from controlling the lynch this game, this seems like an especially bad game to implement a system like that. The Council is not missing out on any information that we the townspeople have, so I'm not sure as to why we would need to take extra steps to get our opinions across. Let's just use our words.

Hey guys, I'm back here. Didn't know this started.

But if anyone votes to overthrow the council, dear council. I recommend you get them out of here.

Weird post. Stating the obvious.

What do we do? We can't get a town leader since the council are the people voting.

But we still need a town leader to gather roles and scumhunt for the council.

(I'm not good at doing that)

No we don't, we need everyone to scumhunt, and we can't have just one person gather roles because there are no whispers. That would not be a good mindset anyway.

Weird post. I'm not liking this entrance from Jfire here. Whiff of scumminess.

[RHawkeye]

The OP says the Council decides on the vote over 5 days. Coupled with a 24 hour first day, I'd be highly surprised if there is a lynch today.

[murat1996]

The OP says the Council decides on the vote over 5 days. Coupled with a 24 hour first day, I'd be highly surprised if there is a lynch today.

I know right, I mean this is gonna be an interesting game though, for sure.

[cmitc1]

if they could talk we would know the council team lmao
so they basically bulletproof blackmailed lawyers

Question to all players - what will you do if someone scumslips?

pretty sure everyone will have the same (or close to) the same response.

Call them out on it.

[Varanus]

I see no reason why we shouldn't just treat this like a normal game. The main differences here are that scum can't quickhammer, and they don't win when they are equal in numbers to town.

Another element that changes is the urgency and potency of scum reads and final decisions. Mafia can be more vague and slip between the cracks, so to say, as no one can pressure them with votes.

I fail to see how this is relevant. Pressure votes hardly do anything unless there are several of them, and I'm thinking it will still be very clear when several people would cast their votes. In fact, there's nothing wrong with just casting votes for players, even if we can't actually lynch.

[Lokiben]

I see no reason why we shouldn't just treat this like a normal game. The main differences here are that scum can't quickhammer, and they don't win when they are equal in numbers to town.

Another element that changes is the urgency and potency of scum reads and final decisions. Mafia can be more vague and slip between the cracks, so to say, as no one can pressure them with votes.

I fail to see how this is relevant. Pressure votes hardly do anything unless there are several of them, and I'm thinking it will still be very clear when several people would cast their votes. In fact, there's nothing wrong with just casting votes for players, even if we can't actually lynch.

I think moonbird has a point, but I like your idea here. Casting symbolic votes is an intriguing way to apply pressure that would probably work too. We'd all have to agree that the votes are just for defense pressuring, not signalling to the Council who we want lynched.

I guess iggy has to hard claim now then.