SFM 67: Christmas Paranoia Mafia-Game Over-Christmas Saved?

[JacksonVirgo]

I was off wagon because I never wanted those lynches, feel free to Lynch me and I can pop another scummy person to lower poe

bruh why are you doing twtbaw again this is so annoying

What am. I doing?

I'm just trying to be useful with what win I have left, jesus

why are you asking to be lynched

bruh

Because I can't be bothered trying when I know I am just going to be lynched anyway

[TheWabbit]

im fairly sure i could be htg's peek, like i see no reason to scumread me anymore, and im not trying to be selfish, but it's just my old playstyle which im using tended to make me widely townread in a lot of games ive played in so yeah lemme iso her quickly

I'm really into reading tone, and your old meta had a distinct tone when it was obvtown
and I'm getting absolutely flat nothing from you no matter which form your play has taken here
that's what attracted me to the read, and the evidence is what keeps me on it.

i'm also still skeptical about dota here

debil's post about dota being locktown etc. felt like an antispew, since it's too easy
dota himself oddly felt modest about it so w/e

my mind has been fixated from my thoughts D1-D2, but i'll probably case dota sometime within the day

[TheWabbit]

i saw discussion while catching up

i proposed the possibility of 6 wolves in this game with a formula i provided D1

hold

[TheWabbit]

Wanna lynch multi, vaguely

how much conviction do you have for this lynch?

[TheWabbit]

i kinda want to see a google flip

[TheWabbit]

Can I go back to tunnelling et?

what good will it bring?

A death of a scum.

Wabbit is scum with realet townpeak
They scumslipped

reachy as fuck

[TheWabbit]

Jackson/acidic/alwaysnever is my wagonlist rn

why acidic? i haven't heard about them for some time now

Exactly
They're under the radar

i just remembered

i was on acidic the entirety of D2

i'm still good with yeeting them, probably to a lesser degree since we won't have much info

[LOLingHyena]

Acidic/alwaysnever

I guess jackson can stay for now

if they're both scum why you taking so long to push them

I like this post.

guys im pretty sure i wasnt debil's townclear

i pretty much forced him to call me conftown, he didnt do it first, i remember calling him out on it ("why didnt you say im conftown when you did it in previous games as town"), THAT'S when he started doing it

Okay. If you were take a guess, who do you think his townclears are then? Multi, Uzay, and maybe Acidic (see SparkingJay's reasoning for why) would be the remaining obvious possibilities for me.

quick math

wabbit is scum
titled is town
realet is town
debil is scum

wabbit is town pretty sure, im pretty good at reading him so you just gotta trust me here

debil i actually kinda agree on, this may sound a bit selfish but i think it makes sense, previous game i played with him and claimed town in my d1 post he was fullon defending me, i do the same thing here and he has barely any reaction

/vote debil

no idea about the other 2 guys

because you dont get shot lol

yeah i found it

i dont think he was lying when he said hed scumread both of his townclears, debil is a pretty good player im pretty sure hed do it

This is another reason why I'm leaning so hard towards Multi and Uzay being his townclears. Debil is an aggressive player and I don't think he's really afraid to push or go against people if really needed. That also ties into why I don't think I was one of his townclears. I don't think he would've waited for me to push him to start pushing on me if I was one of his townclears.

hm
Assuming scum!Jackson, there could actually be a high chance Et is his townpeek. His townread on et seems almost forced.

why would scum tr their townpeeks tho
wouldnt you feel better about pushing who you know is not scun

i actually dont think hes lying here

i lowkey think he did it so we wouldnt think multi and uzay are his clears

it sounds pretty real that he thinks its a good strat (and it is, dont get me wrong, id do the same)

There we go. We're coming to the same conclusion I think. (@all don't stop giving other possibilities though! Gonna look at Acidic in a bit.)

only hole i find in this theory is multi pushing the guys who are really easy to push (acidic and always), i really dont like him going for low fruits considering multi's ceiling is much higher than that

so despite me thinking multi may be debil's clear i still find him scummy

This is good to note down.

ver does look bad but I don't believe they're scum wtd wtd

This is the first time they mentioned 0ver all of D2, lemme grab the VC

Also I think there’s a reasonable case to be made for watchme being one of Debil’s clears

Good catch.

looking back im pretty sure NOBODY argued the 0ver lynch so theres gotta be a scum in there somewhere

back then i took it as a compliment but yeah looking back that... was incorrect to do

i dont think anyone who needed convincing was a scum with a peek on him, so people like sparking or hyena

More points in Sparking's favor: Over wasn't who he wanted most to lynch. I believe he wanted to lynch between Jackson and ET more.

[polypies73]

I was off wagon because I never wanted those lynches, feel free to Lynch me and I can pop another scummy person to lower poe

bruh why are you doing twtbaw again this is so annoying

What am. I doing?

I'm just trying to be useful with what win I have left, jesus

why are you asking to be lynched

bruh

Because I can't be bothered trying when I know I am just going to be lynched anyway

bruh

[LOLingHyena]

i kinda want to see a google flip

lol, I want to give her a chance to defend herself first

If I get the sense that she could be scum, I'll support the lynch, especially since I know you still have that conditional read w!google -> v!ET, which might help us solve ET.

[polypies73]

why would debil purposefully scumslip his "fake" townpeeks. Especially since not that many peopel were scumreading him.

I don't think debil is that big IQ

[TheWabbit]

i don't understand dota at all this game

they start out flat awkward

and then they're making hopeless platitudes

and then blatant assumptions that get ruined the moment you say it out loud

and then they're confident

and then modest

i can't keep up

Mindmeld

They keep coming up with strange tinfoils using tones like they discovered a new fundamental force or smth

im gonna be an astrophysicist i gotta get used to discovering new fundamental forces

good luck with your goal

[TheWabbit]

my wim is best described as me struggling to stay awake while reading the thread

same, but because i've been distracted irl to focus enough this game

i'm still trying as i'm also assessing my reading capabilities, and i kinda like the playerlist

[TheWabbit]

hyena

please don't do this to me
i was already complacent thinking you're town

[LOLingHyena]

I was off wagon because I never wanted those lynches, feel free to Lynch me and I can pop another scummy person to lower poe

This is, like, a bad and incorrect way to respond to someone trying to ask you questions -- and when I say bad and incorrect, I don't mean scummy. I'm trying to solve your alignment, and you saying "feel free to lynch me" instead of actually explaining your actions doesn't help me do that.

Now, I get that you didn't want those lynches, but by not helping town vote and, thus, resolve someone, you're not helping us get closer to reaching our win condition. We NEED to flip people. It's the only way for us to kill mafia, and even when we're wrong, it still provides information for us (and in this game, it allows town to try to shoot someone else). By not helping us lynch players, you are playing in a very anti-town way. ALSO, because of the venge mechanic, it makes you look suspicious as fuck whenever you're not on a wagon that has a chance of going through. You even made the remark that your vote would probably be useless when you voted Polypies. It only ended up useless because you never pushed him. You didn't do anything with the vote on him, or with your vote in general.

This is why I want you to talk about Polypies and why your vote ended up on him. Based on what you've been saying, Polypies was the lynch you wanted, correct? Explain your thought process behind wanting to vote Polypies and how you got there.

[LOLingHyena]

hyena

please don't do this to me
i was already complacent thinking you're town

Relaaaax. I'm not pocketing you as scum.

[polypies73]

@micheal who are your townpeeks?

[heytheregirl17]

i literally know dota is confirmed town
i dont care for questioning anyone

If Dota hadn't started posting more towny things, what would you have done to prevent his lynch assuming you actually knew for a fact that Dota is town. The way you were talking about him came off like you didn't really care what other people thought about him, which leads me to believe that you didn't really care whether he was lynched or not by the people who were scumreading him.

to be brutally honest id let yall lynch dota at some point just so i could rant to everyone after the lynch

Ah I knew I actually had a reason for debil scumslipping.

I still can't even find the original post but yeah in BOLD.

and basically the follow up after this post was also obv scum

shiiiiiit
Ok here is where I stand on this
Associations are in dota's favor
but Dota's play is not

I honestly think his play outweighs the association because associations can be faked on debil's end, and at some point he'd have to fake something or he'd run out of peeks.

i want this to not be as mentally draining as possible

since i've already proposed a possibility of debil antispewing one as a ""townpeek"", who do you propose as their real townpeeks?

I'm not sold on picking townpeeks out of that
Doing that risky an analysis wrong can get scum into a locktown position when scum already have an astronomical amount of room to fake literally anything
I see where town would benefit from that kind of analysis but I'm not confident enough in my ability to scumread to lock someone town over speculated peeks alone

[heytheregirl17]

Wanna lynch multi, vaguely

how much conviction do you have for this lynch?

On a scale of 1-10
Dota 7
Acidic 6
Michael 5
Multi 4

Dota would have been a 9 had you asked at EOD2 but I'm losing confidence

[heytheregirl17]

why would debil purposefully scumslip his "fake" townpeeks. Especially since not that many peopel were scumreading him.

I don't think debil is that big IQ

I mean it's not really that hard to do you literally just throw out 2 names you randomly generate

[LOLingHyena]

already told the mods about this but i'll share it here as well because why not

a not-so-nearby volcano's getting really active recently and i'm in a low-risk area
ashfall started since last night, and i'm not sure if i'll have to evacuate depending on how strong the south wind is

if i end up getting prodded i'm more or less willing to be replaced out, but i hope i don't end up with not being able to play FM for a while

good night

Oh crap! Stay safe!

dota, errr i don't know about him. i saw his style of post throughout the thread. from his low spirited posts about not wanting to be lynched, to a sudden invigoration of strength and suddenly started to spew towny af posts. it's a weird progression, but probably not supposed to be sus and had to do with him in person suddenly have wim or smth. still unsure, that's why i said i'm on the fence.

This is fair. If I didn't have as much experience with Dota as I do now, I probably would question the sudden change, too, to be honest.

more in the morning, maybe

That's fine. I'm probably just gonna bask in being right about Debil for a little bit, so I probably won't be terribly productive just yet.

lol but have you read et yet i'm waiting

It's coming.™

tbh debil defended me from multi, so either that could be him thinking me as a fellow scum and subtly defended me or i'm silently his townpeek

lol, I can definitely see him doing the former. I'm surprised nobody has really brought up that scum might want to try to defend those players that they think are fellow scum. It's a viable strategy, regardless if scum knows who exactly is scum.

Yeah throwing shade is gonna get you far

If you were referring to everything AlwaysNever mentioned in his post, they were all justified criticisms of your gameplay this game. Like, make an argument explaining why and how he's wrong if you don't agree with what he said. You just casting off what he said about you as shade is shade itself.

ver does look bad but I don't believe they're scum wtd wtd

This is the first time they mentioned 0ver all of D2, lemme grab the VC

Also I think there’s a reasonable case to be made for watchme being one of Debil’s clears

Michael here is saying 0verkill isn't scum yet not doing anything to defend him, same thing with Debil and his reads.

Yup.

people who were on both of the top wagons: me, et, google, hyena

honestly i have no idea what to do with this info, i need yalls help

im probably leaning towards our group being more towny due to that cuz of the "no majority no lynch" thing and our day timer, scum would really like a nolynch especially day 1 when it was pretty undecided between watchme and jackson afaik

and also becuase of the vengekill stuff but thats a smaller reason

I'm not going to analyze this right now, but I may come back to this later.

shiiiiiit
Ok here is where I stand on this
Associations are in dota's favor
but Dota's play is not

I honestly think his play outweighs the association because associations can be faked on debil's end, and at some point he'd have to fake something or he'd run out of peeks.

HTG. Here's what I want you to do.

1.) Ignore Dota for a little bit. Don't focus on him. Don't even mention him in your posts for a while.
2.) Look at other people. Make some reads on them. Don't want to do that? Maybe just react to people and to what they are saying... well, maybe not if it's Dota-related. Also, don't fluff. That'll clog up the thread. Just do something game-wise that ISN'T related to Dota.

This will help me get a better read on you.

[LOLingHyena]

I'm tired of catching up. I think I've got a good enough idea of what's going on.

Where has ET been? They've been strangely absent not only from the thread, but from a lot of people's discussions.

[dota2reporter]

thought of something, imo no offense to michael but currently in this game hes a very easy person to push and for scum hed be an easy town to mislynch but hes barely gotten any traction after chem and me started making a case on him early d3, which makes me think hes not a peek, therefore scum

[LOLingHyena]

Scum!Debil took me for the big bamboozle

he shouldve been in everyones poe

Why didn't you help me push him yesterday if you feel this way?

Anyway, here's some day 2 stuff of his:

me multi and i think uzay were on virgo earlier
oevr was just more appealing for me personally

nice, thread's still open

good morning everyone

0vers main wagon
we might not maj

the meta argument is pretty solid

i probably wouldnt vote jackson over 0ver

the meta read is unbelievably solid imo

He REALLY liked Dota's meta argument apparently. Based on what I'm reading here, it was a big factor in why he stayed on Over. The only thing I don't like here is the "we might not maj" line. @ET, what was your mindset when you said this?

[LOLingHyena]

this game is bad what do we get out of an 0ver lynch
even if he turns out to be scum we have nowhere to go from that

well with x amount of traitors you dont really get info to go on from a lynch

well, if people think someone is scum and they are scum, they might act differently
and also the townpeeks
and interactions

keyword here is might, chances are they wont
and maybe their townpeeks lie around null or mafia or town, you cant know
and interactions mean zilch

I think this might just be a pet peeve of mine, but I really dislike it when people are like "_____ doesn't mean anything" because it's such a lazy approach. Not only does it not add anything to the game, but to me, it minimizes everything else that could matter. At the very least, it's very anti-town if not scummy.