Vigilantics Replacements

[FirstToGetThisName]

Opinion on Vampire Game Mode:
I don't see any disincentive for the town to hunt down the vampire hunter and the anys and subsequently all win as vampire. Perhaps there should be a reason for the town to do so?

Opinion on Rivalry:
Do the two mafia factions share a night chat? Can they target each other?
If they don't share a night chat, AND they can target each other, then town is waaaaaaay too OP, they were OP before, and having 2 maf per maf faction makes the maf even more miserable.
If they do share a night chat, then maybe this might work. The moment they start to get an advantage, the mafia might start to turn on each other, possibly returning the advantage back to the town. Just don't reveal opposing factions' night actions to each other if they can target each other. Although, the town would be heavily reliant on them turning on each other too early, as it might take perfect play on their part to wipe out one faction right away. Unless there are no promotions, in which things become easier for the town to reduce the KPN but still...

[Zee235]

Opinion on Vampire Game Mode:
I don't see any disincentive for the town to hunt down the vampire hunter and the anys and subsequently all win as vampire. Perhaps there should be a reason for the town to do so? their can only be max 4 vamps in a game. Everyone can't be a vamp (leftover town and nk)

Opinion on Rivalry:
Do the two mafia factions share a night chat?No Can they target each other?Yes
If they don't share a night chat, AND they can target each other, then town is waaaaaaay too OP, they were OP before, and having 2 maf per maf faction makes the maf even more miserable.
If they do share a night chat, then maybe this might work. The moment they start to get an advantage, the mafia might start to turn on each other, possibly returning the advantage back to the town. Just don't reveal opposing factions' night actions to each other if they can target each other. Although, the town would be heavily reliant on them turning on each other too early, as it might take perfect play on their part to wipe out one faction right away. Unless there are no promotions, in which things become easier for the town to reduce the KPN but still... i don't see why they should share a night chat. However I am probably changing the rolelist to 9 v 3 v 3

[FirstToGetThisName]

Opinion on Vampire Game Mode:
I don't see any disincentive for the town to hunt down the vampire hunter and the anys and subsequently all win as vampire. Perhaps there should be a reason for the town to do so? their can only be max 4 vamps in a game. Everyone can't be a vamp (leftover town and nk)

Opinion on Rivalry:
Do the two mafia factions share a night chat?No Can they target each other?Yes
If they don't share a night chat, AND they can target each other, then town is waaaaaaay too OP, they were OP before, and having 2 maf per maf faction makes the maf even more miserable.
If they do share a night chat, then maybe this might work. The moment they start to get an advantage, the mafia might start to turn on each other, possibly returning the advantage back to the town. Just don't reveal opposing factions' night actions to each other if they can target each other. Although, the town would be heavily reliant on them turning on each other too early, as it might take perfect play on their part to wipe out one faction right away. Unless there are no promotions, in which things become easier for the town to reduce the KPN but still... i don't see why they should share a night chat. However I am probably changing the rolelist to 9 v 3 v 3

In response to Vampire: There is a maximum of 4 living vampires and no limit on deceased ones, last I recall. I also don't recall vampires having to survive to the end to win, so every convert-able player can win if the vampires alternate between biting and lynching a member. However, if the vampire population, living AND deceased, is limited to 4, then I highly pity the vampires, although the game will indeed become more interesting.

No additional response to Rivalry, except "Ok".

[Soulshade55r]

It annoys me when people think there needs to be 9 Town in rivals, just because Town don't have majority doesn't mean they can't vote anyone up A) the other Mafia will vote up the other Mafia, B) the other Mafia will attack the other Mafia, does the Mafia count the Serial Killer towards there majority? Maybe once in a blue moon you can work with the sk, but you both can't win together so what's the point same applies for Mafia v Mafia v Town, my idea is to have a group of 3 Mafia v 3 Mafia, maybe a Neutral Benign and 8 town

People realise outside modes don't need to be balanced like ranked, you'll never have true balance unless you make everything Citizen and Goon.

[Zee235]

Classic Rotating Game Mode: Rainbow, Gamemode XY, Gamemode XF, Gamemode XZ
Coven Rotating Game Mode: Rainbow, Mafia Returns, Lovers, VIP, Gamemode XY, Gamemode XF, Gamemode XZ, Gamemode XR, Gamemode XP

Fill in the blank gamemodes with whatever you want, but the stagnation is the issue. All Any managed to be an exception to this as the actual list of roles is technically different, so it shouldn't be lumped in, but Classic needs a rotating gamemode with less features than Coven tbh. And as things are released in Classic, they should be released in Coven as well, but not the other way around.

When you consider that the reason gamemodes like Vigilantics and Rainbow fail is because of how people get so bored of them no one wants to play, ANY and EVERY suggestion save for this one won't do shit.

I haven't reviewed the balance content of the proposed rolelists, or any suggested in-thread rolelists, but if they aren't part of a rotating game mode people WILL get bored and the gamemode WILL die.

I am not saying your wrong but their is more to it. The main reason why vigilantics fails is due to the general scum favored rolelist. While for a chaos mode isn't bad per se it gets worse when you realise with has an autovest which keeps it from getting killed along with vigilantes will usually not be able to control what their actions are. I do agree with you that chaos modes do need rotating gamemodes though.

As far as the rolelist goes I encourage you to look at them. I am adding a poll to see how people want the rolelist to be changed.

It annoys me when people think there needs to be 9 Town in rivals, just because Town don't have majority doesn't mean they can't vote anyone up A) the other Mafia will vote up the other Mafia, B) the other Mafia will attack the other Mafia, does the Mafia count the Serial Killer towards there majority? Maybe once in a blue moon you can work with the sk, but you both can't win together so what's the point same applies for Mafia v Mafia v Town, my idea is to have a group of 3 Mafia v 3 Mafia, maybe a Neutral Benign and 8 town

People realise outside modes don't need to be balanced like ranked, you'll never have true balance unless you make everything Citizen and Goon.

If you don't have a town majority, you aren't playing mafia.

That said, a Rotating Gamemode could have stuff like that.

I would prefer that I have 9 town in the multiball rolelist.

[Zee235]

The rolelist could be God-awful, and people would still play it as it might fit their setup niche. With over a million players in total, it's safe to assume a good chunk of people will want to play any given rolelist.

The problem lies in the consistency. Vigilantics has a pretty shit setup, yeah, but as a 2014 player I can attest that it was still fairly active back then. People grew tired of it. The same happened with Rainbow. All Any managed to defy this odd, partially because even though the actual setup is the same every game has a different rolelist (and they are two different things) since it's almost impossible for two All Any games to have the exact same rolelist, and even more impossible for the player to play in those two games, and certainly impossible for a player to deduce that the rolelist is the same as a previous game - so even if the rolelist is the same, the suspense along with player interactions will keep it different.

With Vigilantics and Rainbow, it's not so, and people grew tired of it - player interactions aren't enough sometimes. Adding any mode to replace Vigilantics will result in the same, no matter how balanced - people will flock to it due to an affinity to novelty, but once that novelty wears off people will stop playing. The exceptions, of course, going to Classic and Ranked Practice, which most players eventually stop playing regardless (as it is for newer players), and Ranked, which 1) has a lot of randoms making for rolelist variety and 2) is meant to focus on player interactions rather than role gimmicks, as well as a focus on competitive play.

The big question is - why? If there's a steady stream of new players, why aren't modes like Vigilantics and Rainbow more active simply due to players who have never played before and as such still experience novelty? Well, my hypothesis is players play a few games and then leave because they don't want to play that same setup again.

Rotating Rolelist would solve these issues. A simple replacement for Vigilantics won't, no matter how well made.

You do know I agreed with you about the rotating gamemode?

[Soulshade55r]

It annoys me when people think there needs to be 9 Town in rivals, just because Town don't have majority doesn't mean they can't vote anyone up A) the other Mafia will vote up the other Mafia, B) the other Mafia will attack the other Mafia, does the Mafia count the Serial Killer towards there majority? Maybe once in a blue moon you can work with the sk, but you both can't win together so what's the point same applies for Mafia v Mafia v Town, my idea is to have a group of 3 Mafia v 3 Mafia, maybe a Neutral Benign and 8 town

People realise outside modes don't need to be balanced like ranked, you'll never have true balance unless you make everything Citizen and Goon.

If you don't have a town majority, you aren't playing mafia.

That said, a Rotating Gamemode could have stuff like that.

Nope problem is if there was 9 Town in that type of mode they would win 90% of the time I've been in town v Mafia v coven

[TehLonelyNinja]

A vampire focused town mode would be interesting, but I think there should be at least one set killing role in order to put pressure on both sides

[Villagerlover]

A vampire focused town mode would be interesting, but I think there should be at least one set killing role in order to put pressure on both sides

Agreed. The last thing we need is long drawn-out games with vampires since vampires lack any real way to "kill" townies.

Unless of course...vampires could choose to either bite (convert), or kill a town member, then that could spice things up. But honestly it's probably just better to throw in an SK or somethin' dangerous for both sides in the beginning.