Non-Unique Role Overhaul

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Do you agree with this change?

Yes, this change is needed.
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Total votes : 12

Non-Unique Role Overhaul

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:38 am

Each role can only naturally roll 3 times in a game, excluding Custom games where the Host can set more of these roles in a single game.
Last edited by BasicFourLife on Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby Joacgroso » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:34 pm

I don't think this would change many things, since 3 of a same role is already a lot. It may also reduce claimspace in extreme scenarios, so I'm not sure.
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:37 pm

Joacgroso wrote:I don't think this would change many things, since 3 of a same role is already a lot. It may also reduce claimspace in extreme scenarios, so I'm not sure.

It is a small Town buff. Since 4-5 of the same role is chaos. Also Mafia doesn't need to claim the same role 2-3 times. This is a slight Town buff. Town could nerfed in 1000 other ways, instead of letting RNG affect it.
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby Joacgroso » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:39 pm

I still not sure about this. I don't really have an opinion then. This would be so slight that it wouldn't really change much.
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:39 pm

Joacgroso wrote:I still not sure about this. I don't really have an opinion then. This would be so slight that it wouldn't really change much.

It does
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby OnlyA » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:39 am

Yes.
Definitely
/support.

No reason that town needs 4 of one role.

I would probably still /support if you said there couldn't be 3 of anything.
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby qwertyuiopl » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:11 pm

Here's my question
Why ranked only?
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:18 pm

qwertyuiopl wrote:Here's my question
Why ranked only?

Custom and all Any modes might want to use more than 3 roles at a time?
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby Shilster » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:05 am

What about Ranked Practice?
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:32 am

Shilster wrote:What about Ranked Practice?

Hm, maybe
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:56 am

Ranked Practice and Ranked should be exactly the same, there's no maybe. If Ranked Practice isn't entirely identical down to the most minute balance change, then it's not practice for Ranked, because it's not actually Ranked.
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Re: Ranked-Only-Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:57 am

HereThereEverywhere wrote:Ranked Practice and Ranked should be exactly the same, there's no maybe. If Ranked Practice isn't entirely identical down to the most minute balance change, then it's not practice for Ranked, because it's not actually Ranked.

Kay, I agree
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby SERVAT » Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:53 pm

I don’t like this idea personally. What if mafia accidentally claims sheriff when other 3 people are? You make think this will not happen all the time, but you’d be surprised. Even in high elo games, maf aren’t coordinated. Some could claim something in jail and never announce it to the other mafia, plus you can’t control what NE and NK are gonna claim either. This also reduces RNG, but I think that, at least in Ranked, there’s the perfect amount of RNG in gameplay(except day 1 but this won’t affect it at all). The less RNG, the more town wins, and town doesn’t need a higher win rate right now.

In Ranked games, claiming as mafia is as hard as it gets, one false move and you get lynched. If you play ranked you must know how popular is too claim sheriff as mafia is, and I think that this would make gameplay harder. IDK, even if it’s.a small buff it can easily be abused, and I see no reason to implement it. /nosupport
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby OnlyA » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:54 am

/support.

no reason that town needs 4 spies. Or 4 vigs. Or 4 of anything, really. Doesn't change that much, I will probably added it to Basic Ranked changes (mostly uncontroversial suggestions)
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby Villagerlover » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:02 am

I don't agree with this because the town is already pretty powerful, and reducing the chances of 3 of the same non-unique town roles from appearing in the same game just increases the chances of unclaimable roles like the mayor or retributionist to appear as the RT.

On top of that, Mafia members are not the only ones who have to worry about this. You must also take into account the NK and NE role.

/nosupport
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:20 am

Villagerlover wrote:I don't agree with this because the town is already pretty powerful, and reducing the chances of 3 of the same non-unique town roles from appearing in the same game just increases the chances of unclaimable roles like the mayor or retributionist to appear as the RT.

On top of that, Mafia members are not the only ones who have to worry about this. You must also take into account the NK and NE role.

/nosupport

That is a stupid argument... This does not reduce claim space. You are using game being broken as an argument "this increases the chances of Retri and Mayor" which is just stupid. That is an another topic.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby Villagerlover » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:42 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:I don't agree with this because the town is already pretty powerful, and reducing the chances of 3 of the same non-unique town roles from appearing in the same game just increases the chances of unclaimable roles like the mayor or retributionist to appear as the RT.

On top of that, Mafia members are not the only ones who have to worry about this. You must also take into account the NK and NE role.

/nosupport

That is a stupid argument... This does not reduce claim space. You are using game being broken as an argument "this increases the chances of Retri and Mayor" which is just stupid. That is an another topic.


First of all, it does increase the chances of unclaimable role appearing because you're decreasing the chances of non-unique town roles from appearing more than three times. The game has to put new role slots somewhere yanno.
Secondly, you're saying that it's somehow a bad thing to incorporate how unbalanced the game is??

So no, it isn't another topic, and it isn't a stupid argument at all. You're just close minded and incompetent the moment someone disagrees with your suggestion.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:46 am

Villagerlover wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:I don't agree with this because the town is already pretty powerful, and reducing the chances of 3 of the same non-unique town roles from appearing in the same game just increases the chances of unclaimable roles like the mayor or retributionist to appear as the RT.

On top of that, Mafia members are not the only ones who have to worry about this. You must also take into account the NK and NE role.

/nosupport

That is a stupid argument... This does not reduce claim space. You are using game being broken as an argument "this increases the chances of Retri and Mayor" which is just stupid. That is an another topic.


First of all, it does increase the chances of unclaimable role appearing because you're decreasing the chances of non-unique town roles from appearing more than three times. The game has to put new role slots somewhere yanno.
Secondly, you're saying that it's somehow a bad thing to incorporate how unbalanced the game is??

So no, it isn't another topic, and it isn't a stupid argument at all. You're just close minded and incompetent the moment someone disagrees with your suggestion.

Why are using Retri and Mayor as an argument against this suggestion. We should consider the best balance for the WHOLE game as a whole. Do you think it is good if there are 4 Escorts or 5 Sheriffs in a game?
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby SERVAT » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:59 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:I don't agree with this because the town is already pretty powerful, and reducing the chances of 3 of the same non-unique town roles from appearing in the same game just increases the chances of unclaimable roles like the mayor or retributionist to appear as the RT.

On top of that, Mafia members are not the only ones who have to worry about this. You must also take into account the NK and NE role.

/nosupport

That is a stupid argument... This does not reduce claim space. You are using game being broken as an argument "this increases the chances of Retri and Mayor" which is just stupid. That is an another topic.


First of all, it does increase the chances of unclaimable role appearing because you're decreasing the chances of non-unique town roles from appearing more than three times. The game has to put new role slots somewhere yanno.
Secondly, you're saying that it's somehow a bad thing to incorporate how unbalanced the game is??

So no, it isn't another topic, and it isn't a stupid argument at all. You're just close minded and incompetent the moment someone disagrees with your suggestion.

Why are using Retri and Mayor as an argument against this suggestion. We should consider the best balance for the WHOLE game as a whole. Do you think it is good if there are 4 Escorts or 5 Sheriffs in a game?


There should never be 5 sheriffs in a game. But THE IDEA that the maximum number of roles possible is 3 can be abused. If ToS somehow managed to sneak this up into the code, it be okay.. but if people knew 3 is max, well... it’s not that rare for town to have more than 3 claims of something, although only 1 or 2 are real.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby Villagerlover » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:01 am

BasicFourLife wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:
BasicFourLife wrote:
Villagerlover wrote:I don't agree with this because the town is already pretty powerful, and reducing the chances of 3 of the same non-unique town roles from appearing in the same game just increases the chances of unclaimable roles like the mayor or retributionist to appear as the RT.

On top of that, Mafia members are not the only ones who have to worry about this. You must also take into account the NK and NE role.

/nosupport

That is a stupid argument... This does not reduce claim space. You are using game being broken as an argument "this increases the chances of Retri and Mayor" which is just stupid. That is an another topic.


First of all, it does increase the chances of unclaimable role appearing because you're decreasing the chances of non-unique town roles from appearing more than three times. The game has to put new role slots somewhere yanno.
Secondly, you're saying that it's somehow a bad thing to incorporate how unbalanced the game is??

So no, it isn't another topic, and it isn't a stupid argument at all. You're just close minded and incompetent the moment someone disagrees with your suggestion.

Why are using Retri and Mayor as an argument against this suggestion. We should consider the best balance for the WHOLE game as a whole. Do you think it is good if there are 4 Escorts or 5 Sheriffs in a game?


Yeah, and the WHOLE game is unbalanced enough by the actual power of the town's roles alone...
And yes, I do think it's good to have more than 3 roles of the same kind in a game. I would rather have 5 escorts or 5 sheriffs appear very unbelievable to the town, and cause a lot of mislynches rather than buff the town's overpowered state by further helping them narrowing down the rolelist.
By limiting the maximum amount of non-unique town roles to 3, you are only making things harder for evil roles and forcing them to deal with bullshit town roles like Retributionist or Transporter. You are also destroying the point of Disguisers by adding this suggestion because the moment there is a 4th role of the same kind that appears, the town will instantly figure out that there's a disguiser in the mix. And that's really stupid because no player is going to be deceived when they see that.

It's my opinion, and I say that I don't believe the town needs anymore meta-power than it already has.
Calling my argument "stupid" is going to make me want to stick to my opinion even more instead of being persuaded by your non-sensical approach to my valid points.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby Soulshade55r » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:15 am

From someone who gets Vietnam flash backs from a 5 spy game this is a very welcome idea.

Also it hardly Nerf scum, maybe a tiny bit but they can easily buff scum in other ways this. creates less swing
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby ColbyBryant » Mon May 14, 2018 5:13 am

/nosupport

Giving town 3 random townies but limiting claimspace to maf is very counterproductive. This limit just creates more meta shit. Town doesn't need a buff in ranked/ranked practice.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Mon May 14, 2018 6:45 am

This doesn't give Town any control over what roles they'll get, it just gives them an idea of what is and isn't possible. It buffs things like VFR, which we don't want to buff.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby BasicFourLife » Mon May 14, 2018 6:57 am

HereThereEverywhere wrote:This doesn't give Town any control over what roles they'll get, it just gives them an idea of what is and isn't possible. It buffs things like VFR, which we don't want to buff.

Multi Town role games with +4 of the same role are terrible anyways. This barely affects the game, it just lowers the RNG a bit.
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Re: Ranked / RP - Change

Postby HereThereEverywhere » Mon May 14, 2018 7:41 am

And makes VFR slightly stronger.
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