Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would you?

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Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would you?

Postby Mroz4k » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:18 am

Heavy discussion on this topic is encouraged, however this should still apply as suggestion - to every Forumgoes here on the Forums.

In the light of certain events, a thread was made.
In here, we discussed the fact that the Forums have been falling into a bad shape, and intellectual quality of average post has reached a new low.

Meaning, there is too much shitposting going on the Forums.

I am therefore suggesting to every decent Forum User out there to go around the Forums, put extra effort into posting. Only make quality posts, not some shit one-sentenced posts without any kind of a real feedback to it at all. Refer to this Sticky for more info - viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13688
And if you are not confident you can write at least 5 sentences, or give at least two reasonable points, then dont post at all. You are not required to post on every single thread ever. You can also wait a bit - someone else might post something, and you will be able to participate in that conversation again.

More importantingly, I am asking every decent Forum User to report the low-quality posts, so the Mods can get to them and solve them. Shitposting needs to be considered a serious problem, and rooted out as soon as possible. With a huge amount of reports, particular Users responsible for this shitposting will come up to light - and after some level of warnings is distributed, I am sure the shitposting will be pushed to minimum.

You can consider this suggestion to be a community rally. If you support this thought, I hope that you will fast forward it to other users as well, and we get this thing moving.

Any feedback on this topic is appreciated, for as long as its at very least medium quality.
Away in the real world most of the time, but I return from time to time, at my own whim.


FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Deleter » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:31 am

Sometimes it only takes one sentence to dispense the wisdom the forum needs
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Gobln » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:07 am

Its really not that big of a deal.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Arckas » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:15 am

Deleter wrote:Sometimes it only takes one sentence to dispense the wisdom the forum needs

Those types of thing would be more low quality, rather then starting a flame war. If someone going to post "I agree" they may as well not post at all.


Due to the nature of Reporting sections, that board is more prone to starting fights. Wether it be because of a false report or a breakout between if something is wrong or not, it stopped (somewhat) as the rule was implemented. Its understandable that is letting bad apples ruin the bunch, but when it keep happening and things start getting out of hand, it just needs a change.

Rule remain as it is for now, perhaps with small changes as time passes and perhaps with the rule getting lax. Perhaps it may be lifted, but not unless under more supervision.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Gobln » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:18 am

Arckas wrote:
Deleter wrote:Sometimes it only takes one sentence to dispense the wisdom the forum needs

Those types of thing would be more low quality, rather then starting a flame war. If someone going to post "I agree" they may as well not post at all.

I disagree, sometimes people should be able to voice their support, if someone has already stated all the options of why something needs to be changed people should be able to show they agree with that person.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Waffleme3 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:07 am

Not saying I don't shit post my self because I do ever so often, but mostly in the lounge.
It can get really annoying when a thread in the feedback section is all shit posting.
quality poster1: [insert big opinion]
Shitposter 1: [quoteof qualitly poster]This role would make the game unbalanced[endquote]
Shitposter 2: [insert dvideo of unbalanced] [insert bad pun that its unbalanced]
Shitposter 3: Makes random pun because the other person did
Quality poster 2: Stop shit posting
Shitposter 2: Were not shit posting

REPEAT

This is what happens to so many threads once someone shit posts. Its annoying, at least try to say something to contribute to topic. I was going to say make it so only trusted users would be able to post in those areas but thats not fair to everyone else, plus most of the time it is trusted users who have shit posted to become one. It can really annoy to me sometimes and sometimes If i see shitposting I just don't comment.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Jfire » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:08 pm

UnknownH wrote:Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding the situation, but considering what's causing the problem primarily is the fact that people want to raise their post count, why not just change the "reward" of the forums?

Many people see a large post count as a way to become important. Why not add some other features to the forums? Forum Mafia flairs, donor flairs, among other contests held on the forums could instead become mini badges, or awards, shown underneath the PM icon (there is a lot of unused space there!).

You could also consider adding a like feature to the forums where you can like a certain topic or response, and that will be tallied on the poster's profile page, which will encourage people to make quality posts and responses. In addition this this, keep the Trusted Users group, because it's (usually) a good indicator whether a person makes quality posts, but make the upsides to being a Trusted User less. If people want the ability to post images on the forums, they'll want to post more, so change the reward of using the image BBCode to something else.

Hope my ideas weren't too far fetched.


There are FM flairs and Donor flairs, I would like contest flairs and badges, that sounds interesting.

Trusted's already have quite a few rewards, there is 0 need for more. But I love your like button idea! You should have a section for "liked posts" and instead of commenting to add it to your egosearch, all you would have to do is like it and you can see other responses, but I don't know if it can be done with php, /support
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Mroz4k » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:53 pm

Deleter wrote:Sometimes it only takes one sentence to dispense the wisdom the forum needs


True, but it very much depends on the sentence.

The thing is, absolute majority of these kind of posts are nothing but a low quality pointless post, often even off-topic, and its being projected in many relatively "newer" users already being at 1500 posts and counting. Post upping was an issue while back, and was handled usually really quickly by the Mods.

But frequency of warnings by Mods dropped down a ton, and that kicked off these problems.

I guess saying "one line" would make more sense - you can easily stuff your opinion into one sentence, but if your post is only one line of text, then it hardly can be considered anything else then low quality post. If you dont have more to say then that, best not to say anything at all.

Gobln wrote:Its really not that big of a deal.


I dissagree, I think its a very big problem. The Forums always had more quality part, where Feedback is, and more leasure part like Lounge. I have nothing against shitposting in Lounge - it doesnt up the post count, it cant really affect the topic, so its fine to do that there.

However, Forums also need some level of quality to be respectable - else, the Forums will eventually go stale like the in-game community already did long ago.
And most people wouldnt want that, though I guess some wouldnt mind.
Away in the real world most of the time, but I return from time to time, at my own whim.


FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Ansem555 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:59 pm

I've already been doing my part, whenever I see a low-quality post in anywhere but the Lounge I send a report right away. Very short sentences, one word responses, huge quote boxes that only have the quote-er posting any of the former two I report them. I agree that yes an opinion can be said in a sentence but it depends, if you literally have nothing to add but "I agree" or an up arrow or something you shouldn't be posting at all as it doesn't nudge any sort of conversation forward nor give anyone anything to think about except "Yup, that person agrees right down to the period of the poster right above them that I could have read anyway."

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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Gobln » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:11 pm

Always looking for a new thing to complain about, just get over it.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Deleter » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:34 pm

Arckas wrote:
Deleter wrote:Sometimes it only takes one sentence to dispense the wisdom the forum needs

Those types of thing would be more low quality, rather then starting a flame war. If someone going to post "I agree" they may as well not post at all.


Due to the nature of Reporting sections, that board is more prone to starting fights. Wether it be because of a false report or a breakout between if something is wrong or not, it stopped (somewhat) as the rule was implemented. Its understandable that is letting bad apples ruin the bunch, but when it keep happening and things start getting out of hand, it just needs a change.

Rule remain as it is for now, perhaps with small changes as time passes and perhaps with the rule getting lax. Perhaps it may be lifted, but not unless under more supervision.

If someone makes a thread saying mayor games suck all you need to post is "they don't".
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby parkerparkour » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:36 pm

How about we work on the low quality player community first
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Juuhazan » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:00 pm

parkerparkour wrote:How about we work on the low quality player community first


This.

Literally every post shitting on other players is in response to some stupid idea, strategy or suggestion they never thought through.

And Mroz, really, did you have to make an entire thread telling people to stop fucking around? You really don't expect a high-quality forum with low-quality players, do you?
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby deferentsheep » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:52 pm

First you're taking our shitposts, then you're taking our sarcasm, then you're taking our satire! I cannot stand for this.

If all this world cared about was intellectual quality, where is the philosophical singularity into which we have all voluntarily assimilated? The premise behind this thread is to limit freedom of speech in pursuit of some obscene, sterile intellectual environment which sadly will never arise. By attempting to convert a forum comprised of young, immature children to some idyllic utopia in which no wrong is done is incredibly shortsighted and will be harmful to the community as a whole. If anyone attempts this, they are going to be highly unsuccessful in improving the quality of the community. It's making us into something that we aren't, and it won't work.

The best solution is not to expect anything better.

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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Arckas » Tue Aug 18, 2015 2:46 am

So when you have people trying to justify and explain the logistics of why shit-posting is beneficial, then you have the problem and the reason for it, which I'm starting to now see why we need more enforced rules.

From experience, there is nothing in the game, no feature that can be added, to better the community other then the community. Reporting system will only take away people who are toxic; reporting won't take away new players. If were looking at the forums for any changes, I doubt there is going to be a lack of new players posting strategies. Even more, if I were to make a hypothesis. The community itself has to do the heavy lifting here. Like any MMO, the community is a major part of the game. What better way to better the community then the community itself.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Juuhazan » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:20 am

Arckas wrote:So when you have people trying to justify and explain the logistics of why shit-posting is beneficial, then you have the problem and the reason for it, which I'm starting to now see why we need more enforced rules.

From experience, there is nothing in the game, no feature that can be added, to better the community other then the community. Reporting system will only take away people who are toxic; reporting won't take away new players. If were looking at the forums for any changes, I doubt there is going to be a lack of new players posting strategies. Even more, if I were to make a hypothesis. The community itself has to do the heavy lifting here. Like any MMO, the community is a major part of the game. What better way to better the community then the community itself.


The community is bad. There is nothing to sugarcoat that fact.

Between toxic people and outright piss poor players, there's not going to be any peace here.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Deleter » Tue Aug 18, 2015 3:29 am

IMO shitposting should be listed under "reason you are reporting this post"
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Mroz4k » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:31 am

------------
So, I was thinking - what would be the best way to punish someone for shitposting?

Well, shitposting does have one major thing with it - post count. Like it or not, post count used to be a good way to see if User was around for long enough - is a Forum Veteran - and so you can expect they know how it goes around - such a User would be able to answer most of your questions , etc.

But, recently certain users got around 1500 within a short period of time, being stuck to 10 posts per day, but if you counted all the letters in those 10 posts, it wouldnt be even a 5th of this post alone.

So, I think this system would work well.

If User does more then one shitpost per day, Moderator is allowed to PM him, giving him the ultimatum of 24 hours to improve the quality of these particular posts, and lists them all out. If User fails to improve it during the deadline, even if he only didnt change one of the ten posts, the Moderator will issue him with a warning, for shitposting.

For two warnings about shitposting, just two (possibly three) the User´s Post count would be nullified to Jester Flair (10 posts).

That way, Shitposters will never be taken seriously, unless they start following the rules and start taking some time with responding in a higher quality post, or not responding at all.

I am guessing that if they didnt learn their lesson, reaching the "Jester de-rank" again would be a good enough incensive for ban on Forums, for continuous disrespect to Forum Rules.

Any constructive opinions on this welcomed.


-----

@Deferent
Spoiler:
deferentsheep wrote:First you're taking our shitposts, then you're taking our sarcasm, then you're taking our satire! I cannot stand for this.

If all this world cared about was intellectual quality, where is the philosophical singularity into which we have all voluntarily assimilated? The premise behind this thread is to limit freedom of speech in pursuit of some obscene, sterile intellectual environment which sadly will never arise. By attempting to convert a forum comprised of young, immature children to some idyllic utopia in which no wrong is done is incredibly shortsighted and will be harmful to the community as a whole. If anyone attempts this, they are going to be highly unsuccessful in improving the quality of the community. It's making us into something that we aren't, and it won't work.

The best solution is not to expect anything better.

Mr. Prozi4k, maybe you don't understand our lemon styles?

Sure. Go ahead, ridicule me. You know, I could take offense to purposedly butchering my Username to ridicule me, but you just aint worth all the effort.

You dont even know what half of these words mean.

And stop trying to pull the "Age equals maturity and intelligence" card around here. Nelly is over 5 years younger them me and she is far more mature. She is a GMod for a reason, afterall...
Being "young, immature" does not constitute for a reason to not follow the rules.
Also, this:
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UNDER 13. IF YOU ARE UNDER 13, PLEASE DO NOT SUBMIT ANY PERSONALLY
IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION TO BlankMediaGames.

There goes your claim of "immature children". If 13yrs olds are immature, they shouldnt be here, because in here, the quality dictates they behave by the book, or else they are sent packing.

So, might as well go pack up your luggage, take your lemon style and off to the Lounge with you.


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Spoiler:
Juuhazan wrote:The community is bad. There is nothing to sugarcoat that fact.

Between toxic people and outright piss poor players, there's not going to be any peace here.


Really, now?

How come this wasnt here, three-four months ago?

Back before there was the issue with several Mods going uber hard on anything outside the rules, and the following riot of Community which ended with temporary demoting of some Staff members, noone but Gobln would dare to shitpost anywhere else then on Lounge, maybe, MAYBE on the the discussion forums.

The "community is bad" reason is stupid claim of defending the "just let the people do what they want" - but anarchy on forums wouldnt boat well.

Untill very recently, and now I am looking at the new batch of people who turned from post 0 to 600 in less then two months, or in some cases, all the way up to 1500 posts in roughly the same amount of time - you guys came here to Forums and disrupted the system that was going on here, a system of mutual respect and mainly respect for Rules.


For example, it took me 4, maybe 5 months of daily visiting the Forums to get to post 600. But, then again, I dare to say that out of my current 2777 posts, 2600 of them are Medium quality at the very least, if not more. And crushing majority of them are going to be high, because I put a lot of effort into mine.
Oh, and the rest that could be considered low quality are just answered Ask questions, where there was no need for more info, mostly of a kind "this question was already answered, here *insert URL to previous post on the same question*"
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FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Nellyfox » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:36 am

That would only work if TurdPile was willing to do that. But honestly if people just post a bunch of low quality posts constantly then you can report them for spam.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Mroz4k » Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:47 am

Nellyfox wrote:That would only work if TurdPile was willing to do that. But honestly if people just post a bunch of low quality posts constantly then you can report them for spam.


I believe that is how its working, is it not? But even if it does, what happens?
If they do spam, then they get reported, then they get the warning, and continue doing it anyways.

I dont think the warnings do all that much because some people think they can do whatever they want, and I dont recall there being too many people actually banned for spamming.

I consider pernament ban to be a bit too much - it would turn into limiting the freedom of speech kind of thing.
But removing their benefits by taking away their Trusted User status and putting them back to almost square one would seem to be a pretty serious, but fair punishment.

Maybe then some Members would learn to respect the rules, by getting squashed by them.
Away in the real world most of the time, but I return from time to time, at my own whim.


FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Gobln » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:31 am

this isnt necessary

All this does is make Shitposters more subtle on how they troll the forums, making public opinions harder to understand.

If 2 shitposters were normally just going to say "May0r gems r dum" then we could easily write them off as trolls.

But if they were more subtle it only makes things harder for the devs when taking feedback.


This is not necessary.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Nellyfox » Tue Aug 18, 2015 10:34 am

Mroz4k wrote:
Nellyfox wrote:That would only work if TurdPile was willing to do that. But honestly if people just post a bunch of low quality posts constantly then you can report them for spam.


I believe that is how its working, is it not? But even if it does, what happens?
If they do spam, then they get reported, then they get the warning, and continue doing it anyways.

I dont think the warnings do all that much because some people think they can do whatever they want, and I dont recall there being too many people actually banned for spamming.

I consider pernament ban to be a bit too much - it would turn into limiting the freedom of speech kind of thing.
But removing their benefits by taking away their Trusted User status and putting them back to almost square one would seem to be a pretty serious, but fair punishment.

Maybe then some Members would learn to respect the rules, by getting squashed by them.

Nobody gets banned for spam because not many people do it and as the rule states we're pretty lenient with it to begin with. Because really, where do you draw the line ?

If people disregard their warnings and continue their behaviour then they get more warnings until they're banned. It may be a long process, but it can happen.

Where did you get the idea that we permanently ban people for spam ? Permanent bans are usually only give out to trolls/bots, rule breaking first posts, and if you're a long time trouble maker. Honestly if you went so far to get 3 warnings for spam I'd start you off with a week ban.
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Mroz4k » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:40 am

Nellyfox wrote:Nobody gets banned for spam because not many people do it and as the rule states we're pretty lenient with it to begin with. Because really, where do you draw the line ?

If people disregard their warnings and continue their behaviour then they get more warnings until they're banned. It may be a long process, but it can happen.

Where did you get the idea that we permanently ban people for spam ? Permanent bans are usually only give out to trolls/bots, rule breaking first posts, and if you're a long time trouble maker. Honestly if you went so far to get 3 warnings for spam I'd start you off with a week ban.

I never knew of anyone who would get banned for spamming. I figured, however, that it must have happened in the past, with the bots and trolls.

I know its difficult, but the warning process is too easygoing on everyone. Not talking about shitposters, talking in general. I´ve had person literally spam me in PM´s with racist insults towards my family and they were not banned (not gonna say whom, hold no grudge).

The thing is, the whole reporting system is a bit lenient - and perhaps its because the lines are not draw or are too lenient.
Now this might sound like a critism, but I dont mean it in a bad way - just saying that it is, and that it might be one of the reasons these people dont seem to respect the Rules.

I´ve always treasured this community and tried to do alright by them, but it bothers me that there is both lack of respect for one-another, no quality in the conversations anymore, and its just endless conflicts that are not bad enough to consider them a flame war.

Some time in the past, I considered rules to be too strict, as they were enforced too strictly.

Nowadays I believe its the other way around. Sorry but thats just my opinion.

Another solution - getting banned from commenting on certain forum. Though not sure if thats possible.
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FM history:
Spoiler: NFM4 - Lookout - W
NFM7 - Consort - L (so close tho)
FM8D - Cit+ to Sheriff - W
FM9C - Cit - L (epicly failed)
CFM hydra 2 - Medium with Varanus - W
SFM17 - Caporegime - W
FM9D - Serial Killer - W (epicly :D)
SFM14 - Bodyguard-ish role - modkilled, caused MyLo FTW - W?
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby Nellyfox » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:43 am

Bots/trolls aside don't think anyone has been banned for spamming. And if that happened before the entire forums were banned, since the bans were wiped I guess everyone got another chance ? Not sure. And you know, the last time we were pretty strict on rules, well you know how that went. :s
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Re: Hey, fellow Forumgoer - help us fix the Forums, would yo

Postby orangeandblack5 » Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:48 am

Nellyfox wrote:Bots/trolls aside don't think anyone has been banned for spamming. And if that happened before the entire forums were banned, since the bans were wiped I guess everyone got another chance ? Not sure. And you know, the last time we were pretty strict on rules, well you know how that went. :s

I'd be fine with seeing a bit of a crackdown provided that the Lounge isn't changed and that Report Players is re-opened to interested parties.

It shouldn't be a problem to enforce the rules a bit more harshly in Report Players, definitely not to the point where it's basically against the rules to post there.
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SwampRabbit wrote:your idea is that no town should ever be able to confirm themselves as town.

that is the dumbest idea I think I have heard.

ElderSivart wrote:I'm confused as to why BMG made a UI for Pirate and not Hypnotist.

Sarah Thorpe wrote:Role Ideas is great for masochists.
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orangeandblack5
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