Investigator Results Edit

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Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:13 am

There is a big problem in Classic with there not being enough roles for evil roles to fake claim when being investigated. While this change is small, it might help:

- Remove the "Survivor, Vampire Hunter, Amnesiac, Medusa, or Psychic" Bucket
- Add Survivor to "Investigator, Consigliere, Mayor, Survivor, Tracker, or Plaguebearer"
- Add Vampire Hunter to "Lookout, Vampire Hunter, Forger, Juggernaut, or Coven Leader"
- Add Amnesiac to "Medium, Janitor, Amnesiac, Retributionist, Necromancer, or Trapper"
- Add Medusa to "Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Pirate, Ambusher, or Medusa"
- Add Psychic to "Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, Poisoner, or Psychic"

Survivor: This gives Mayor and Plaguebearer a new claim in All Any/Coven All Any. This does nothing outside of that, however.
Vampire Hunter: This gives Forger a great fake claim in All Any/Coven All Any, while it being decent for Juggernaut and Coven Leader.
Amnesiac: This gives Janitor a great fake claim, as stating that it can't remember any Town roles since they would all be Cleaned. It is not an awful claim for the Necromancer.
Medusa: This allows Medusa to claim Veteran better in Coven Ranked and Coven All Any. It can also claim Vigilante or Pirate to an extent.
Psychic: This allows Executioner and Poisoner to claim Psychic better.
Last edited by WaveAqualei on Thu Sep 08, 2022 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby EtherealEnder » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:10 am

/support
My name is Axeras :>



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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby DecDecAttack » Thu Apr 28, 2022 9:51 am

Tbh I'm up for removing a couple other results and adding them back in elsewhere as well.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:10 am

DecDecAttack wrote:Tbh I'm up for removing a couple other results and adding them back in elsewhere as well.

I think if we add more roles to the rest of the results it should be fine.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:01 pm

/support

Not only makes invest result more balanced but it also unconfirms 2 town roles in coven rank (vigi and vet)
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:55 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:/support

Not only makes invest result more balanced but it also unconfirms 2 town roles in coven rank (vigi and vet)

Yes!
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Fri May 20, 2022 12:39 pm

Regarding Coven, the issue is there just aren't enough Coven faction roles to fill all the Investigator slots.
As things stand, these roles can be 100% confirmed Town by an Investigator in a Coven game without NK or Mafia (which most Coven rolelists not named All Any don't have) Spoiler: - Bodyguard
- Crusader
- Escort
- Investigator
- Jailor (unless there is GA)
- Mayor
- Spy (unless there is GA)
- Tracker
- Transporter
- Veteran (Unless there is Pirate)
- Vigilante (Unless there is Pirate)
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri May 20, 2022 12:55 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:Regarding Coven, the issue is there just aren't enough Coven faction roles to fill all the Investigator slots.
As things stand, these roles can be 100% confirmed Town by an Investigator in a Coven game without NK or Mafia (which most Coven rolelists not named All Any don't have) Spoiler: - Bodyguard
- Crusader
- Escort
- Investigator
- Jailor (unless there is GA)
- Mayor
- Spy (unless there is GA)
- Tracker
- Transporter
- Veteran (Unless there is Pirate)
- Vigilante (Unless there is Pirate)

I agree. I want to add more Coven roles but this isn’t the forum page for that. I made a few if you want to have a look.
The Surv/VH/Amne result being removed would reduce the confirmability in Classic which I think would help.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby NobleClo » Sun Jun 12, 2022 4:34 am

/support

this is a really good change ngl, especially the medusa unconfirming Vig/Vet in ranked CAA.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun Jun 19, 2022 7:32 am

/Support.

Yeah these changes are actually really good I have no complaints here.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby DragoWhooves » Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:01 am

/support
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Sat Nov 05, 2022 3:27 pm

I've given the Investigator results a bit more thought. Here's what the default results look like:
Spoiler: Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, or Poisoner. (The "Captain Accusation" result.)

Investigator, Consigliere, Mayor, Tracker, or Plaguebearer. (The "gathers information" result. Mayor is also here for some reason.)

Lookout, Forger, Juggernaut, or Coven Leader. (The "What the hell is this?" result.)

Spy, Blackmailer, Jailor, or Guardian Angel. (This result used to make sense back when Spy and BM were very similar, but now they aren't.)



Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Pirate, or Ambusher. (The "TK/bait" result.)



Medium, Janitor, Retributionist, Necromancer, or Trapper. (the "messes with the dead" result. Trapper is also here for some reason.)

Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist. (The "disruptor" result.)



Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, or Potion Master. (The "could be a healer" result.)

Bodyguard, Godfather, Arsonist, or Crusader. (The "doused" result.)



Framer, Vampire, Jester, or Hex Master. (The "framed" result.)

Survivor, Vampire Hunter, Amnesiac, Medusa, or Psychic. (The "these roles can't show up in most Classic modes so putting them in a different role slot would give more information" result. Also known as the NB result.)
Some things to note about these results:

- Any result with Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel on them are smaller than they look because they have mod-messages that make it extremely difficult to functionally fake-claim those roles.

- Psychic is a "Captain Accusation" role due to its evil visions. It also just flat out does not belong in the result with Survivor and Amnesiac (and the same goes for Medusa).

- Blackmailer is a "gathers information" role due to its ability to read whispers

- Lookout and Tracker not sharing a result is blasphemy. Especially since Plaguebearer exists, which can feasibly fake-claim either role.

- Having one result for both "framed" and "doused" would make it easier for Arsonist to slip into the shadows, and harder for Spy to hard-counter the "I was framed" defence.

With that in mind, I've come up with a completely different set of investigative results:
Spoiler: Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, Psychic, or Poisoner. (The "Captain Accusation" result.)

Investigator, Consigliere, Blackmailer, or Coven Leader. (The "gathers information" result.)

Lookout, Spy, Ambusher, Tracker, or Plaguebearer. (The "messes with visits" result.)



Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Trapper, or Medusa. (The "TK/bait" result.)



Medium, Forger, Janitor, Retributionist, or Necromancer. (The "messes with the dead" result.)

Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist. (The "disruptor" result. Unchanged from the original.)



Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, or Potion Master. (The "could be a healer" result. Unchanged from the original.)

Bodyguard, Godfather, Juggernaut, or Crusader. (The "could be a protector" result.)



Framer, Arsonist, Jester, or Hex Master. (The "framed" result.)

Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel. (The "you're not fake claiming these roles anyway" result)

Survivor, Amnesiac, Vampire, or Vampire Hunter. (The "these roles can't show up in most Classic modes" result. Also known as the NB result.)
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 06, 2022 2:53 am

MysticMismagius wrote:I've given the Investigator results a bit more thought. Here's what the default results look like:
Spoiler: Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, or Poisoner. (The "Captain Accusation" result.)

Investigator, Consigliere, Mayor, Tracker, or Plaguebearer. (The "gathers information" result. Mayor is also here for some reason.)

Lookout, Forger, Juggernaut, or Coven Leader. (The "What the hell is this?" result.)

Spy, Blackmailer, Jailor, or Guardian Angel. (This result used to make sense back when Spy and BM were very similar, but now they aren't.)



Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Pirate, or Ambusher. (The "TK/bait" result.)



Medium, Janitor, Retributionist, Necromancer, or Trapper. (the "messes with the dead" result. Trapper is also here for some reason.)

Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist. (The "disruptor" result.)



Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, or Potion Master. (The "could be a healer" result.)

Bodyguard, Godfather, Arsonist, or Crusader. (The "doused" result.)



Framer, Vampire, Jester, or Hex Master. (The "framed" result.)

Survivor, Vampire Hunter, Amnesiac, Medusa, or Psychic. (The "these roles can't show up in most Classic modes so putting them in a different role slot would give more information" result. Also known as the NB result.)
Some things to note about these results:

- Any result with Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel on them are smaller than they look because they have mod-messages that make it extremely difficult to functionally fake-claim those roles.

- Psychic is a "Captain Accusation" role due to its evil visions. It also just flat out does not belong in the result with Survivor and Amnesiac (and the same goes for Medusa).

- Blackmailer is a "gathers information" role due to its ability to read whispers

- Lookout and Tracker not sharing a result is blasphemy. Especially since Plaguebearer exists, which can feasibly fake-claim either role.

- Having one result for both "framed" and "doused" would make it easier for Arsonist to slip into the shadows, and harder for Spy to hard-counter the "I was framed" defence.

With that in mind, I've come up with a completely different set of investigative results:
Spoiler: Sheriff, Executioner, Werewolf, Psychic, or Poisoner. (The "Captain Accusation" result.)

Investigator, Consigliere, Blackmailer, or Coven Leader. (The "gathers information" result.)

Lookout, Spy, Ambusher, Tracker, or Plaguebearer. (The "messes with visits" result.)



Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Trapper, or Medusa. (The "TK/bait" result.)



Medium, Forger, Janitor, Retributionist, or Necromancer. (The "messes with the dead" result.)

Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist. (The "disruptor" result. Unchanged from the original.)



Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, or Potion Master. (The "could be a healer" result. Unchanged from the original.)

Bodyguard, Godfather, Juggernaut, or Crusader. (The "could be a protector" result.)



Framer, Arsonist, Jester, or Hex Master. (The "framed" result.)

Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel. (The "you're not fake claiming these roles anyway" result)

Survivor, Amnesiac, Vampire, or Vampire Hunter. (The "these roles can't show up in most Classic modes" result. Also known as the NB result.)

I don't mind some of your ideas, but you do have to balance around Classic Results also.

I've given it thought as well. I'd rather overhaul them entirely and I believe I know how to do it? In most of the Classic Results, each role can claim something pretty well, but in Coven it's a complete different story. Here's what I was able to come up with:

Classic Results:
Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, or Ambusher.
Medium, Retributionist, Janitor, or Amnesiac.
Spy, Jailor, Vampire Hunter, or Forger.
Sheriff, Framer, Executioner, or Werewolf.
Lookout, Blackmailer, or Witch.
Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist.
Doctor, Disguiser, Serial Killer, or Vampire.
Investigator, Mayor, Consigliere, or Survivor.
Bodyguard, Godfather, Jester, or Arsonist.

Coven Results:
Vigilante, Veteran, Mafioso, Ambusher, or Medusa. "Your target is capable of death."
Medium, Retributionist, Janitor, Necromancer, or Amnesiac. "Your target is involved with the dead."
Spy, Jailor, Vampire Hunter, Forger, or Guardian Angel. "Your target keeps quiet."
Sheriff, Trapper, Framer, Hex Master, Executioner, or Werewolf. "Your target is waiting for when to act."
Lookout, Tracker, Blackmailer, Coven Leader, or Plaguebearer. "Your target observes from a distance."
Escort, Transporter, Consort, Hypnotist, or Pirate. "Your target interferes with others."
Doctor, Psychic, Disguiser, Potion Master, Serial Killer, or Vampire. "Your target keeps to themselves."
Investigator, Mayor, Consigliere, Juggernaut, or Survivor. "Your target is hiding something about themselves."
Bodyguard, Crusader, Godfather, Poisoner, Jester, or Arsonist. "Your target likes to take charge."
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:32 am

The reason I only made Coven results is because Classic and Coven results are always the same, just with Coven roles tacked on at the end.

My thought process for the results I came up with was:

1) Condense all the roles that would just take away claim space in standard modes (ranked, TT, etc.) into as few results as possible.
1A) These roles can be split into two categories: the “you can’t claim this” category and the “this doesn’t show up in most modes” category.

2) Connect the townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, with the evil roles that have those tools
2B) There is some discretion here as some roles (Forger, Hypno, and PM come to mind) have the tools to fakeclaim multiple different roles that don’t go together.

3) Connect the roles that are easy to fake-claim effectively, with the evil roles that have no specific tools with which to craft a fake-claim.

Also, the Framer/HM result should have all evils in it, otherwise frames are even less effective than they are now.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:41 am

MysticMismagius wrote:The reason I only made Coven results is because Classic and Coven results are always the same, just with Coven roles tacked on at the end.

My thought process for the results I came up with was:

1) Condense all the roles that would just take away claim space in standard modes (ranked, TT, etc.) into as few results as possible.
1A) These roles can be split into two categories: the “you can’t claim this” category and the “this doesn’t show up in most modes” category.

2) Connect the townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, with the evil roles that have those tools
2B) There is some discretion here as some roles (Forger, Hypno, and PM come to mind) have the tools to fakeclaim multiple different roles that don’t go together.

3) Connect the roles that are easy to fake-claim effectively, with the evil roles that have no specific tools with which to craft a fake-claim.

Also, the Framer/HM result should have all evils in it, otherwise frames are even less effective than they are now.

I would want to rework Framer/HM where they choose what to make their target look like. But other than that…
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:54 am

Other than that…?

(Also I made the results assuming that no roles would be changed and no new roles would be added. We don’t know which if any new roles/role reworks are going to be put into the game so imo it’s better to write the results around the roles that exist rn rather than hypothetical roles)
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:19 am

Do you like everything else?
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:31 am

I do wonder what your thought process is when deciding which roles go together

The BG/GF/Jest/Arso/Crus/Pois result strikes me as particularly weird. Why add Jester and Posioner to that one?

Also I think VH and Vamp sharing a result would be interesting as Vamps commonly fakeclaim VH
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:27 pm

I tried to rework the results without changing the roles themselves (excluding Framer/HM). I put first put the Town roles into their own slots and then assigned evils to them. I went off of my past experiences and what each role is good at fake-claiming best. That’s not the case for all roles though.
That’s why I wanted Poisoner with BG and Crus since it’s the result that makes the most sense for it out of the results with no Coven roles. It’s a role that can pretty much claim whatever (except Doctor).
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:32 pm

Hmm, interesting.

Poisoner is a role that can "kind of claim whatever" but it shares that distinction with pretty much any evil role that has no specific fake-claim tools
Godfather, Mafioso, Framer, Disguiser, all the NKs except Plaguebearer, pretty much any role that doesn't have tools to fake-claim something specific can "claim whatever".

Regardless, I think your investigative results list has many of the issues I tried to address in mine.
For example:

Issue 1: Some roles just take away claim space when put in a result with other roles. This is either because fake-claiming these roles is nigh-impossible; or because they rarely show up outside of All Any, Custom, and dedicated chaos modes.
WaveAqualei wrote:Spy, Jailor, Vampire Hunter, Forger, or Guardian Angel. "Your target keeps quiet."
This result is deceptively tiny. It has two un-claimable roles and one that doesn't appear in most non-AA game modes. In most contexts this result basically boils down to "Spy or Forger."

Issue 2: Some Town roles require specific abilities to fake-claim effectively. Pairing these Town roles with evil roles which lack the tools to claim them will instantly confirm those evil roles.
WaveAqualei wrote:Investigator, Mayor, Consigliere, Juggernaut, or Survivor. "Your target is hiding something about themselves."
I understand the concept of putting Survivor in the same result as Mayor (and one might expand it by putting Jailor and Survivor together as well), but Juggernaut cries in the corner for this result in CRP. With no Survivor in that mode, a Juggernaut pretty much has to claim Investigator and good luck with that.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun Nov 06, 2022 4:38 pm

MysticMismagius wrote:Hmm, interesting.

Poisoner is a role that can "kind of claim whatever" but it shares that distinction with pretty much any evil role that has no specific fake-claim tools
Godfather, Mafioso, Framer, Disguiser, all the NKs except Plaguebearer, pretty much any role that doesn't have tools to fake-claim something specific can "claim whatever".

Regardless, I think your investigative results list has many of the issues I tried to address in mine.
For example:

Issue 1: Some roles just take away claim space when put in a result with other roles. This is either because fake-claiming these roles is nigh-impossible; or because they rarely show up outside of All Any, Custom, and dedicated chaos modes.
WaveAqualei wrote:Spy, Jailor, Vampire Hunter, Forger, or Guardian Angel. "Your target keeps quiet."
This result is deceptively tiny. It has two un-claimable roles and one that doesn't appear in most non-AA game modes. In most contexts this result basically boils down to "Spy or Forger."

I mean to be fair it's practically "Spy or Blackmailer" already... so. And Guardian Angel is something you can fake claim successfully.

Issue 2: Some Town roles require specific abilities to fake-claim effectively. Pairing these Town roles with evil roles which lack the tools to claim them will instantly confirm those evil roles.
WaveAqualei wrote:Investigator, Mayor, Consigliere, Juggernaut, or Survivor. "Your target is hiding something about themselves."
I understand the concept of putting Survivor in the same result as Mayor (and one might expand it by putting Jailor and Survivor together as well), but Juggernaut cries in the corner for this result in CRP. With no Survivor in that mode, a Juggernaut pretty much has to claim Investigator and good luck with that.

I mean, I fake claim Investigator often. Juggernaut really doesn't have anything good to claim anywhere no matter where you put it, but it has the best chance by far with Investigator's slot. I believe it's a step-up from claiming Lookout however.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby MysticMismagius » Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:11 pm

Another day, another rework
Mostly because I don't know what to do with Trapper, and because there was another thread about Investigator which focused on flavor text and establishing a consistent order to the roles within a result.

Same general philosophy as before: Sorting Townie and Evil roles into three "claimability brackets", with standard gamemodes like Ranked and Town Traitor in mind:

Tier 1: Townie roles that can be claimed by pretty much any role, combined with Evil roles that don't have any tools to craft a fake-claim with.
Spoiler: Sheriff, Psychic, Poisoner, Executioner, or Werewolf: Your target is quick to accuse and unforgiving.
Bodyguard, Crusader, Godfather, or Juggernaut: Your target relies heavily on their community.
Doctor, Disguiser, Potion Master, or Serial Killer: Your target is intimately familiar with the human body.
Veteran, Vigilante, Mafioso, or Medusa: Your target has an itchy trigger finger.

Tier 2: Townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, combined with Evil roles that have those tools.
(This one's a bit weird since some Evil roles have the tools to fake-claim multiple Townie roles that don't go together. I did my best.)
Spoiler: Investigator, Spy, Consigilere, Blackmailer, or Witch/Coven Leader: Your target knows too much about you.
Medium, Retributionist, Forger, Janitor, or Necromancer: Your target revels at the sight of death.
Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist: Your target has a tendency to mess with people.
Lookout, Tracker, Trapper, Ambusher, or Plaguebearer: Your target observes others from a distance.

Tier 3: Unclaimable roles. Either these instantly confirm themselves, or they don't show up in standard modes at all.
Spoiler: Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel: Your target makes their presence known.
Amnesiac, Survivor, Vampire, or Vampire Hunter: Your target is shy and usually stays away from the action.

Then there's the classic Framer result, which now has Arsonist in it so Spy doesn't instantly hard-counter the "I was framed" defence when one of these roles gets checked by an Investigator.
Spoiler: Framer, Hex Master, Arsonist, or Jester: Your target shows clear signs of ill-intent. They may also be framed, hexed, or doused.
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby DragoWhooves » Wed Jan 18, 2023 1:03 am

MysticMismagius wrote:Another day, another rework
Mostly because I don't know what to do with Trapper, and because there was another thread about Investigator which focused on flavor text and establishing a consistent order to the roles within a result.

Same general philosophy as before: Sorting Townie and Evil roles into three "claimability brackets", with standard gamemodes like Ranked and Town Traitor in mind:

Tier 1: Townie roles that can be claimed by pretty much any role, combined with Evil roles that don't have any tools to craft a fake-claim with.
Spoiler: Sheriff, Psychic, Poisoner, Executioner, or Werewolf: Your target is quick to accuse and unforgiving.
Bodyguard, Crusader, Godfather, or Juggernaut: Your target relies heavily on their community.
Doctor, Disguiser, Potion Master, or Serial Killer: Your target is intimately familiar with the human body.
Veteran, Vigilante, Mafioso, or Medusa: Your target has an itchy trigger finger.

Tier 2: Townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, combined with Evil roles that have those tools.
(This one's a bit weird since some Evil roles have the tools to fake-claim multiple Townie roles that don't go together. I did my best.)
Spoiler: Investigator, Spy, Consigilere, Blackmailer, or Witch/Coven Leader: Your target knows too much about you.
Medium, Retributionist, Forger, Janitor, or Necromancer: Your target revels at the sight of death.
Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist: Your target has a tendency to mess with people.
Lookout, Tracker, Trapper, Ambusher, or Plaguebearer: Your target observes others from a distance.

Tier 3: Unclaimable roles. Either these instantly confirm themselves, or they don't show up in standard modes at all.
Spoiler: Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel: Your target makes their presence known.
Amnesiac, Survivor, Vampire, or Vampire Hunter: Your target is shy and usually stays away from the action.

Then there's the classic Framer result, which now has Arsonist in it so Spy doesn't instantly hard-counter the "I was framed" defence when one of these roles gets checked by an Investigator.
Spoiler: Framer, Hex Master, Arsonist, or Jester: Your target shows clear signs of ill-intent. They may also be framed, hexed, or doused.

Sounds good to me
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby scarfves » Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:13 am

MysticMismagius wrote:Another day, another rework
Mostly because I don't know what to do with Trapper, and because there was another thread about Investigator which focused on flavor text and establishing a consistent order to the roles within a result.

Same general philosophy as before: Sorting Townie and Evil roles into three "claimability brackets", with standard gamemodes like Ranked and Town Traitor in mind:

Tier 1: Townie roles that can be claimed by pretty much any role, combined with Evil roles that don't have any tools to craft a fake-claim with.
Spoiler: Sheriff, Psychic, Poisoner, Executioner, or Werewolf: Your target is quick to accuse and unforgiving.
Bodyguard, Crusader, Godfather, or Juggernaut: Your target relies heavily on their community.
Doctor, Disguiser, Potion Master, or Serial Killer: Your target is intimately familiar with the human body.
Veteran, Vigilante, Mafioso, or Medusa: Your target has an itchy trigger finger.

Tier 2: Townie roles that require specific tools to fake-claim effectively, combined with Evil roles that have those tools.
(This one's a bit weird since some Evil roles have the tools to fake-claim multiple Townie roles that don't go together. I did my best.)
Spoiler: Investigator, Spy, Consigilere, Blackmailer, or Witch/Coven Leader: Your target knows too much about you.
Medium, Retributionist, Forger, Janitor, or Necromancer: Your target revels at the sight of death.
Escort, Transporter, Consort, or Hypnotist: Your target has a tendency to mess with people.
Lookout, Tracker, Trapper, Ambusher, or Plaguebearer: Your target observes others from a distance.

Tier 3: Unclaimable roles. Either these instantly confirm themselves, or they don't show up in standard modes at all.
Spoiler: Mayor, Jailor, Pirate, or Guardian Angel: Your target makes their presence known.
Amnesiac, Survivor, Vampire, or Vampire Hunter: Your target is shy and usually stays away from the action.

Then there's the classic Framer result, which now has Arsonist in it so Spy doesn't instantly hard-counter the "I was framed" defence when one of these roles gets checked by an Investigator.
Spoiler: Framer, Hex Master, Arsonist, or Jester: Your target shows clear signs of ill-intent. They may also be framed, hexed, or doused.

Oh snap, I think these results are actually pretty good, probably the best I've seen. They do a good job to evenly divide roles, not having a syndrome where 'too many eggs are put into one basket' which would remove the general purpose of the investigator, and they address basic flawed issues with the current results, such as the Lookout/Forger/CL/Jugg or Amne/VH/Surv brackets.
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treasured ideas:
Gunslinger
Mafioso Removal + Godfather Rework
Move Plaguebearer from Neutral Chaos to Neutral Killing
Survivor Change
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Re: Investigator Results Edit

Postby Soulshade55r » Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:47 am

I don't think Lookout will ever be a balanced solo result with evils. I think you need another Vanilla role with LO to make it properly balanced, LO is generally a really really challenging fake claim to be convincing.
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Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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