Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:39 pm

TuNa36 wrote:/support but to fix classic TT you need to get rid of ban evaders first , classic TT is literally unplayable because of ban evaders


Thanks for the support. :)

Flavorable wrote:
If only we had a magic want we could wave around to make all trolls immediately disappear. :(


Yeah that's a whole different kettle of fish, although I do think scaling time outs would potentially help the issue.

If anyone has any thoughts in regards to fixing Coven TT, I am all ears. I have a few ideas but I am not making very much progress on it.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Brilliand » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:30 pm

Kirize12 wrote:So...does TMK have the power to boost the Mafia's win rate 15%? I don't think it does, considering again that it only interacts with two roles (Jailor and Escort), so you're gonna need to explain why it would buff Mafia too much and what you base that assumption off of. Of course, if it DOES boost Mafia's win rate by 15%, we could always nerf other aspects of the Mafia - such as making Framer frames not-so-permanent, which is a good thing since it diminishes the Framer's skill level. Also, with the addition of TMK, Mafioso will likely be switched out for an RT - meaning Town gets an extra member. While Mafia will overall benefit from the increased claimspace and will no longer have to be deadlocked, they still lose a member in Ranked - that's a big enough nerf of its own.


Do note that TMK also allows Mafia to have 3 non-killing power roles instead of just the 2 it has now. I'm not sure how big of a winrate boost that would give, but it interacts with more than just Jailor and Escort.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:28 am

Kirize12 wrote:If a change as drastic as TMK is made to Mafia, it should act that way across all modes. Since TMK disallows deadlocking and nerfs Jailor substantially while putting more risk into the confirmable Escort's ability, it should be added to all modes.


This is a Chaos Gamemode. Chaos gamemodes are able to function differently to a lot of other gamemodes so I don't think it is as big of an issue.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Soulshade55r » Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:13 pm

Cavespider17 wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:If a change as drastic as TMK is made to Mafia, it should act that way across all modes. Since TMK disallows deadlocking and nerfs Jailor substantially while putting more risk into the confirmable Escort's ability, it should be added to all modes.


This is a Chaos Gamemode. Chaos gamemodes are able to function differently to a lot of other gamemodes so I don't think it is as big of an issue.


Issue is your suggesting a good balance suggestion that should apply to all modes not only town traitor.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:46 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
I also asked you a question: how big would the boost in winrate be toward the Mafia if TMK was added to Ranked?


I don't know and I didn't see your question the first time (This would require Many tests, and I would suggest this into TG if I didn't have another nomination - and I hope we'd only be looking at TT). Either way I don't think it would be a good thing for ranked. I think ranked needs a whole new list all together. Regardless, I'd like to keep the focus to Town Traitor and not Ranked here, as I still need to do the Coven TT suggestion section of this thread.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:17 pm

Kirize12 wrote:What are your opinions on simply ending the game once the OG Mafia rests in peace?


I think with Scaling traitor Kills it won't be needed. :)
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:47 pm

Kirize12 wrote:I don't like the idea of Traitor being able to kill (outside of role abilities).


I think I understand the concerns, however a few hoops do have to be jumped through in order for them to be able to.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby WaveAqualei » Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:18 pm

Kirize12 wrote:
Cavespider17 wrote:
Kirize12 wrote:If a change as drastic as TMK is made to Mafia, it should act that way across all modes. Since TMK disallows deadlocking and nerfs Jailor substantially while putting more risk into the confirmable Escort's ability, it should be added to all modes.


This is a Chaos Gamemode. Chaos gamemodes are able to function differently to a lot of other gamemodes so I don't think it is as big of an issue.

Chaos Gamemodes generally have universal mechanics that are explained in the game. Everyone knows what a Town Traitor is. Everyone knows the function of Lovers. TMK only applies to Mafia, and nobody who doesn't roll Mafia will understand how it works/how it can affect the game.

I also asked you a question: how big would the boost in winrate be toward the Mafia if TMK was added to Ranked?

I'm not sure how big the boost would be but it would go up a fair amount with the current rolelist.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:35 am

I maintain my view on ranked currently not needing TMK - but rather the gamer ending too soon due to the confirmed witch, and the games being more samey - however, for TT which is a chaos game mode tmk is the solution
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:37 pm

Kirize12 wrote:If you want the game to be less samey, TMK is a perfect solution for that since it means 1/3-1/4 of the Mafia lineup will be the same from game to game instead of 1/2.

I'm still against making this change just for one mode.


You may well be, but as I previously have discussed with you a while back, I am dealing with my concerns about ranked in an entirely seperate thread, which isn't finished yet as I have a lot of things to talk about and not the time to write it :) . Once I have posted that (if I ever finish it) discussing TMK would be better there - as I'd rather focus purely on the Town Traitor gamemode here, elsewise I fear my main discussion points may be lost in the Total TMK discussion.

In particular the role lists here, I feel would assist in the current Town Traitor unbalance - especially with the traitor just waiting to die effectively after their team mates die.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby shapesifter13 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:33 am

Addressing the problems with spam jailing/spam roleblocking is something we do want to do. There have been a few different suggestions that solve it to varying degrees that we will be debating shortly after the TiS release.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby alex1234321 » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:48 am

shapesifter13 wrote:Addressing the problems with spam jailing/spam roleblocking is something we do want to do. There have been a few different suggestions that solve it to varying degrees that we will be debating shortly after the TiS release.


I am in strong support of TMK since it allows more Mafia members to do stuff while also effectively addressing that issue. What are some other potential ideas that BMG is considering? The TG can test any proposals to see how they would play out in a real game.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby WaveAqualei » Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:01 pm

alex1234321 wrote:
shapesifter13 wrote:Addressing the problems with spam jailing/spam roleblocking is something we do want to do. There have been a few different suggestions that solve it to varying degrees that we will be debating shortly after the TiS release.


I am in strong support of TMK since it allows more Mafia members to do stuff while also effectively addressing that issue. What are some other potential ideas that BMG is considering? The TG can test any proposals to see how they would play out in a real game.

I second TMK but I would also like to know what other options are possible.
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Cavespider17 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:28 am

shapesifter13 wrote:Addressing the problems with spam jailing/spam roleblocking is something we do want to do. There have been a few different suggestions that solve it to varying degrees that we will be debating shortly after the TiS release.


Thank you for taking the time to read this thread, it is much appreciated.

I am glad you are considering a counter to the spam Jail and roleblock problem. I am hopeful for the solution. I support Tactical Mafia Killing for Town Traitor (As you can tell by this thread), but not other gamemodes. I hope we can hear more about potential solutions after TiS's release. :)
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Re: Suggestion - Town Traitor Gamemode Update

Postby Soulshade55r » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:34 pm

shapesifter13 wrote:Addressing the problems with spam jailing/spam roleblocking is something we do want to do. There have been a few different suggestions that solve it to varying degrees that we will be debating shortly after the TiS release.

This actually gives me some hope that Tos won't be neglected. As excited I am for Tis future, Tos is more my thing and it was a big worry of mine. Espically that as of now Town of salem isn't in the best state with game modes I just hope this would apply to ranked, as godfather or mafioso could die early the current system isn't fun for escorts that have to deal with both maf/gf ect. Even if its not a TMK implementation its a step in the right direction.

I'll say TMK prolly wouldn't work in current ranked but current ranked isn't really well balanced because of how roles work, 5v10 is more balanced on paper but town is so powerful scum need more then half of towns starting numbers.
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