The Forger Rework

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The Forger Rework

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:39 am

I was super excited to learn about the forger change, but extremely disappointed to learn its new limitations. Shouldn't the forge last longer? At least until the end of the following day would be awesome -- when I made a "buss" play on a person I forged, they just showed up as their normal and will and I got exed the next night.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:27 am

If I'm reading this right... you tried to forge someone who didn't get attacked, and then went for a lynch on them, right?

Forger don't work that way. The target must go down the same night that they are forged.

Use your power on quitters, that's extremely potent.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby EgyptFalcon » Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:03 am

SilverCruz wrote:If I'm reading this right... you tried to forge someone who didn't get attacked, and then went for a lynch on them, right?

Forger don't work that way. The target must go down the same night that they are forged.

Use your power on quitters, that's extremely potent.


Well, that's what I realized to my dismay. I'm proposing it DOES work how I originally thought... I'll never forget the forge I got on a vig shot to jester, and would like more opportunities to forge that aren't just mafia kills (that immediately become suspect).

That's a really awesome idea that I'll have to try, but mafia roles shouldn't only be made powerful by players leaving.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:11 pm

Work it while you got it.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby Benn3 » Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:04 pm

EgyptFalcon wrote:
SilverCruz wrote:If I'm reading this right... you tried to forge someone who didn't get attacked, and then went for a lynch on them, right?

Forger don't work that way. The target must go down the same night that they are forged.

Use your power on quitters, that's extremely potent.


Well, that's what I realized to my dismay. I'm proposing it DOES work how I originally thought... I'll never forget the forge I got on a vig shot to jester, and would like more opportunities to forge that aren't just mafia kills (that immediately become suspect).

That's a really awesome idea that I'll have to try, but mafia roles shouldn't only be made powerful by players leaving.


Forger is still I'd say the most fun and one of the most powerful Mafia roles. You can easily frame players by forging a will. For example, forge somebody as a Vigi that claims to shoot so and so, said person will then get lynched the next day for having defense. Or forge them as a Sheriff to say that one of your Mafia teammates, or yourself, came up innocent. There's many possibilities, they're a very versatile role. The 'rework' allowed them to select the role of who they forge so that they aren't so useless, only being able to forge the will of somebody. Disguiser was the one that got the actual rework.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby Joacgroso » Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:16 pm

Are those plays really viable? I can't imagine the mafia killing someone who hasn't claimed. They would probably be trying to kill TPs, lookouts and then the jailor so they can win. If their target claimed before, town will notice the forgery. If they didn't, why kill them instead of someone important?
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby wozearly » Thu Aug 19, 2021 5:03 pm

Joacgroso wrote:Are those plays really viable? I can't imagine the mafia killing someone who hasn't claimed. They would probably be trying to kill TPs, lookouts and then the jailor so they can win. If their target claimed before, town will notice the forgery. If they didn't, why kill them instead of someone important?


Mafia often have good reason to target roles that are not openly claiming early on (depending on the roles they have in play and what Town have done) if they're hunting TPs or unclaimed Jailors. So yes, plays along those sort of lines work if you do that.

It's not a completely free pass. A sheriff who "found a Mafia last night" but didn't claim openly and push will reek of forgery. But a quiet Invest who had no conclusive results may well have had reason not to reveal immediately to avoid the Maf narrowing down possible TP targets. Planting the seed for a Mafia member or known Witch to have a future claim fairly well backed up by a "confirmed" Invest can throw suspicion away very effectively, and cause Town to doubt other genuine TIs.

If the Maf agree their claims N1, early forges on non-claimers can also distort the appearance of the claimspace to give them more room. A "dead Mayor", for example, can cause an early witch hunt against other TS claims. Bonus points if it's a "dead Mayor" that openly claimed TK, as that gives TK breathing room as well. Alternative bonus points if your Forger realises there's no Medium denouncing the forge and is devious enough to claim Medium and reveal their own forge to confirm themselves.

The really beautiful forges are the aggressive ones, where you royally stitch up an unconfirmed Town member, but these are much as they were before the rework and are restricted to the mid/late game. You usually have to be opportunistic and fake a confirmed role's will at a critical moment, like changing the apparent target of a Vigi claim you know is shooting to prove, or a confirmed Medium about to bring back a crucial result from a dead sheriff, etc.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:11 pm

wozearly wrote:
If the Maf agree their claims N1, early forges on non-claimers can also distort the appearance of the claimspace to give them more room. A "dead Mayor", for example, can cause an early witch hunt against other TS claims. Bonus points if it's a "dead Mayor" that openly claimed TK, as that gives TK breathing room as well. Alternative bonus points if your Forger realises there's no Medium denouncing the forge and is devious enough to claim Medium and reveal their own forge to confirm themselves.


Sounds good in theory, but in practice Medium is a broken role that can hard confirm itself by spam-pasting dead chat, so you'd just get immediately sacked for not doing that.

So ya'knooow. Remove Medium's ability to talk to dead chat, make it scrape auto-generated last wills off of co-aligned roles instead, those wills including what happened the night they kicked it. That'd be better.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby Joacgroso » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:15 am

Can't fake mediums just write a fake dead chat? If there are no real mediums, no one will have any reason to doubt them. And if they are, they can out fake mediums wheter they paste the chat or not.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: The Forger Rework

Postby SilverCruz » Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:24 pm

Which is way, way more effort than it takes to claim literally anything else.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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