Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

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Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby SilverCruz » Sun May 09, 2021 3:00 am

Not sure what to call that exactly.

The gist of it is this. If someone is voted up, instead of voting Innocent or Guilty, the Town must vote for the accused's role. If more than half of the voters identify the accused's role correctly, then the accused is lynched. If more than half of the voters get it wrong, then they are pardoned. The only exceptions to this rule are the Jester and Executioner's target, who instead are lynched if more than half of the voters are wrong, and pardoned if more than half of the voters are correct (the town is never explicitly told if the majority was correct or incorrect), with voters who chose correctly being immune to the Jester's haunting and the Executioner target reverting to standard behaviour if the Executioner targeting them is terminated. As a corollary, a single player can only be voted up once per day and similarly, if a Jailor has jailed a Neutral, Mafia, or Coven role, then they must correctly declare their target's role in order to execute successfully, but if they declare incorrectly then they cannot jail that target again the following night. A town role will be executed even if the Jailor's declaration is incorrect, however, and Vigilante follows the Jailor's rules, except they can attack the same target two nights in a row if they call incorrectly against a cross-aligned role to offset the fact that they do not roleblock, though a bullet is still lost on a failed shot. If the Vigilante is used by a Witch, then the target will always be attacked successfully (Defense is still applicable in this scenario, so this won't make Vigilante take down a Godfather or whatever).

On one hand, this makes mislynching impossible except for with Jesters and Executioner targets. On the other, it makes it so that the town needs more information to get rid of somebody, so even if the town knows that the Framer is a member of the Mafia, they can't do anything about it unless they can nail them as a Framer specifically, and their rate of being able to mill through all the cross-aligned roles is choked by the voting restrictions. I say Custom Rule instead of a Chaos mode because it would probably take some experimenting to find role lists that actually work with this rule, and it'd probably be better to let the playerbase figure one out, how anemic it is notwithstanding.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Joacgroso » Sun May 09, 2021 9:31 am

Sheriffs would be so useless if this was implemented... But I always thought custom should have custom rules, so it's fine. I find it weird that if town guesses the role of a town member then that player will be lynched. People can still vote "inno" during a trial by saying that the accused person has an impossible role (like vampire) or a very unlikely role (like mayor). Scumreading votes will also be almost impossible.

So even though I like custom improvements, this rule doesn't exactly convince me. I think the devs should spend their time in more urgent fixes.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Dragnier » Sun May 09, 2021 11:02 am

The concept is interesting.
The players would be able to see what everybody voted? Ex. Player A voted player on stand is Doctor, Player B voted player on stand is Doctor, Player C voted player on stand is Serial Killer, etc. Or the individual votes will be hidden and only the final result will be revealed "Majority of players voted correctly - Player is lynched"
This could give an extra advantage to evil roles as they have a chat where they can coordinate the voting every night, to make sure they vote together.
This would also punish newbie players.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Midio7 » Sun May 09, 2021 11:55 am

I would love to play a gamemode with this way of lynching tbh
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby SilverCruz » Sun May 09, 2021 12:57 pm

Joacgroso wrote:Sheriffs would be so useless if this was implemented... But I always thought custom should have custom rules, so it's fine. I find it weird that if town guesses the role of a town member then that player will be lynched. People can still vote "inno" during a trial by saying that the accused person has an impossible role (like vampire) or a very unlikely role (like mayor). Scumreading votes will also be almost impossible.

So even though I like custom improvements, this rule doesn't exactly convince me. I think the devs should spend their time in more urgent fixes.


It's true that there are more important things to focus on (I would be discontented to see this implemented before disposing of Ads-For-Plays or stripping the Jailor's roleblock), and it's true that Sheriff would need either a special rule (like Executioner and Jester) or to just be excluded. First thing that comes to mind for Sheriff is to just give it a direct buff and have it see its targets alignment flat out since just seeing that the target is Mafia isn't enough to nail them. As for the impossible votes, that could be worked around by making sure the UI excludes roles that aren't possible in the current list (as well as, unlike the role wheel, having the the sense to not list Vampire Hunter if there is no Vampire, Neutral Any, or Any in the List). That would also backfire if the town has, for example, VFR'd a Jester or Executioner's target, as trying to let them off the hook by calling them a Vampire would get them lynched.

Dragnier wrote:The concept is interesting.
The players would be able to see what everybody voted? Ex. Player A voted player on stand is Doctor, Player B voted player on stand is Doctor, Player C voted player on stand is Serial Killer, etc. Or the individual votes will be hidden and only the final result will be revealed "Majority of players voted correctly - Player is lynched"
This could give an extra advantage to evil roles as they have a chat where they can coordinate the voting every night, to make sure they vote together.
This would also punish newbie players.


I'd probably leave it open, and have the existing Anonymous Voting dip switch hide exact role calls (mind I've never seen that in action). I also want to specifically note that it wouldn't say "players voted correctly", only that the target is lynched or pardoned, in the interest of obfuscating Jesters and Executioner targets without having the game outright lie, since I don't feel it should ever do that without direct player interference.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Joacgroso » Sun May 09, 2021 3:59 pm

If sheriffs can see alignements then they become better investigators. Also, what if they check a role with detection immunity?
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby SilverCruz » Sun May 09, 2021 4:15 pm

I'd argue that Investigator is more dangerous than Sheriff with this rule because with no other information, if someone's acting weird it takes no more than two days to get rid of or confirm them with an Investigator clue that hasn't been tampered with, while Sheriff just knowing outright that somebody is Mafia still gives them a maximum of eleven roles they need to mill through, and nine for Neutrals nevermind the threat of Jesters.

I'd probably experiment first with just ignoring Detection Immunity since the ability that it responds to been completely changed, and go from there if it needs to be tinkered with further.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Joacgroso » Sun May 09, 2021 5:16 pm

Oh, I thought you were suggesting that sheriffs should be able to see subalignements. In that case, they are still useless.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby SilverCruz » Sun May 09, 2021 6:12 pm

I mean Sheriff always sucks.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Joacgroso » Sun May 09, 2021 6:44 pm

Yes, they do.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby alex1234321 » Mon May 10, 2021 6:21 am

Mislynches would almost never happen. Why would a Town member ever guess that someone has a Town role? Scum lynches would be harder, but mislynches would never happen as long as Town has majority unless it's the Executioner's target.

I would support an alternate voting option that is more like the FM voting. Where anyone can vote at any time of day and the first person to reach majority is automatically lynched.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Dragnier » Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 am

Wait, I'm a little confused. So the role voted needs to match the player's role for him to be lynched?

So let's say a player claims to be roleblocking others. Players decide to push him to the stand.

Then, for example:
People that trust him, will vote him as a Escort
People that doesn't trust him, will vote him as a Consort
If the player is Townie, mafia players will vote him as Consort. If the player is Mafia, mafia players will vote him as Escort.

I guess that if the majority votes he is a Townie role (Ex. Escort), then he won't be lynched, right?
If the majority votes he is a Evil role (Ex. Consort), then he gets lynched.
Or if the player role is guessed correctly he gets lynched, regardless if he is good or evil role? (Except for those Jester/Exec scenarios), meaning that if you believe your Escort buddy is really telling the Truth, so you need to vote him as a different role so he isn't lynched as if the majority votes Escort he dies? :shock:

I'm assuming it will be expected that the player claims his real role in the stand if he is townie. Because claiming a different role (The player is the Veteran, but claims Vigi to bait mafia) could lead him to get lynched.

If the majority of the players vote him as Veteran (he claimed that), it will be incorrect so he won't be lynched (meaning he could be a Vigi, or Mafia)
If the majority of the players vote him as Mafioso, Ambusher, etc, it will be incorrect so he won't be lynched (meaning he could be a Veteran or Vigi, or the mafia role that wasn't voted)
If the majority of the players vote him as Vigilante (he claimed Veteran), and it is correct, then the player will be lynched? :shock:
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby SilverCruz » Mon May 10, 2021 1:13 pm

alex1234321 wrote:Mislynches would almost never happen. Why would a Town member ever guess that someone has a Town role? Scum lynches would be harder, but mislynches would never happen as long as Town has majority unless it's the Executioner's target.

I would support an alternate voting option that is more like the FM voting. Where anyone can vote at any time of day and the first person to reach majority is automatically lynched.


*or Jester. Yes, that's acknowledged and intentional. The idea is that it shifts the Mafia's schemes from causing mislynches to obfuscating their roles.

Dragnier wrote:Wait, I'm a little confused. So the role voted needs to match the player's role for him to be lynched?

So let's say a player claims to be roleblocking others. Players decide to push him to the stand.

Then, for example:
People that trust him, will vote him as a Escort
People that doesn't trust him, will vote him as a Consort
If the player is Townie, mafia players will vote him as Consort. If the player is Mafia, mafia players will vote him as Escort.

I guess that if the majority votes he is a Townie role (Ex. Escort), then he won't be lynched, right?
If the majority votes he is a Evil role (Ex. Consort), then he gets lynched.
Or if the player role is guessed correctly he gets lynched, regardless if he is good or evil role? (Except for those Jester/Exec scenarios), meaning that if you believe your Escort buddy is really telling the Truth, so you need to vote him as a different role so he isn't lynched as if the majority votes Escort he dies? :shock:

I'm assuming it will be expected that the player claims his real role in the stand if he is townie. Because claiming a different role (The player is the Veteran, but claims Vigi to bait mafia) could lead him to get lynched.

If the majority of the players vote him as Veteran (he claimed that), it will be incorrect so he won't be lynched (meaning he could be a Vigi, or Mafia)
If the majority of the players vote him as Mafioso, Ambusher, etc, it will be incorrect so he won't be lynched (meaning he could be a Veteran or Vigi, or the mafia role that wasn't voted)
If the majority of the players vote him as Vigilante (he claimed Veteran), and it is correct, then the player will be lynched? :shock:


I think you got mixed up. You said "The player is the Veteran" then "he claimed Veteran" later. Makes this hard to follow. I'd imagine that standard procedure would be that if someone claims a town role when put up, to vote something unwanted in their bracket. They claim Escort, vote Consort. They claim Doctor, vote Serial Killer. They claim Bodyguard, vote Doctor. Exception being if the circumstance in which they were put up is suspicious, then you need to gauge whether they might be an Executioner's target or not, and thus whether or not you should instead try to vote correctly, since for example if someone claims them as being Bodyguard/Godfather/Arsonist when their claim is Medium, any of the three in the bracket will bump them if they're the Executioner's target and actually the Medium.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Brilliand » Mon May 10, 2021 6:25 pm

So if someone is voted up, and you know they're innocent but you aren't sure whether they're the Executioner's target or not... you have no idea which way to vote to prevent them from being lynched?

That sounds bad to me. The Executioner is supposed to convince people their target is susp, not convince people their target is innocent-but-not-an-exe-target.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby SilverCruz » Mon May 10, 2021 6:44 pm

And what they're supposed to do in the context of this Custom Rule is different. They're there to screw up the voting process and make VFRs more risky.

John Hathorne (1) is Sheriff, and Executioner's target.
William Phips (6) is Executioner.

Day 2 starts. William Phips says "vfr 1" and votes up John Hathorne. Town follows suit, and since this is a thing that's normal for non-Executioners to do, nobody thinks anything of it.

John Hathorne claims that he is a Sheriff. The town decides they have no reason to disbelieve him, but to pick off two birds with one stone, they mostly vote Werewolf because there's a Neutral Killing and nothing seemed to happen last night. They're thinking that if he's the Werewolf, then he goes down, and if he's really the Sheriff or an Executioner, then he'll be fine and in the latter case they can just deal with him if he starts to be a problem later or blow a vote the next day to check him for Executioner as well.

John Hathorne was lynched. His role was Sheriff.

Likewise, the inverse. We can suppose that John Hathorne was actually in Slot 8, and William Phips did the same thing, but this time William Phips isn't the Executioner. So the town might get a little paranoid and decide "William Phips didn't VFR 1 or 15, so he's probably an Executioner.", and John Hathorne claims Sheriff. Sure that Billy is the Exe, they vote Sheriff to try to get him off the stand.

John Hathorne was lynched. His role was Sheriff.
I know what I'm doing, generally, but I have no grace at all when things start to spin out of control.

I'd like to address the latter part, but I wouldn't know the first thing about that.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Brilliand » Mon May 10, 2021 7:04 pm

Okay, so the point is to turn the voteup into the lynch and final "lynching" vote into just a requirement to finish off the person you've already decided to lynch. I... see.
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Re: Custom Rule - Alternate Lynching.

Postby Joacgroso » Mon May 10, 2021 7:47 pm

This would make winning as executioner too easy, in my opinion. They don't even need to push their target, just wait until they get voted up for whatever reason. I know exes can get free wins now, but this would make it a lot more common.

I also don't like the idea of discouraging VFR. Waiting for a TI to post results before voting or trying to get info yourself is lame and also boring. And you can't really scumread if you didn't get a single lynch.
Joacgroso wrote:I feel like I went from Light Yagami to Keiichi Maebara.

I still hope one day the game will have private lobbies. They would really help.
Also, please nerf vampire hunters.
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