Hear me out. What if the Medium as a role were removed?

[SilverCruz]

And instead, a random member of the town other than the Jailor (and any other town roles that already talk at night, if applicable) is designated as the Medium, handling both roles at once. If killed, they are revealed as both their main role and as the Medium unless cleaned.

[Ezradekezra]

- Why?
- Guaranteeing a Medium each game by designating a Townie as the Medium would make Ambusher the worst role in the game.
- This makes it nigh impossible to fake-claim Medium
- This basically confirms a random person as Town because of the previous point
- Again, why?

[Dragnier]

I heard many people don't like the Medium a lot, but I don't think that is enough for removing him as a townie.

As Ezradekezra says, perhaps you would like to elaborate a little more on why the Medium as a role (not his abilities) should be removed?

[DiamondRanger8]

- Why?
- Guaranteeing a Medium each game by designating a Townie as the Medium would make Ambusher the worst role in the game.
- This makes it nigh impossible to fake-claim Medium
- This basically confirms a random person as Town because of the previous point
- Again, why?

Ambusher and Medusa btw

[alex1234321]

I would prefer it if Medium was reworked to be less dependent on dead people staying while not being confirmable either. For example, maybe Medium should be able to see the visit history of dead players. Removing last wills, which should be done regardless in order to encourage more day play, would massively buff Medium as well.

[OreCreeper]

I would prefer it if Medium was reworked to be less dependent on dead people staying while not being confirmable either. For example, maybe Medium should be able to see the visit history of dead players. Removing last wills, which should be done regardless in order to encourage more day play, would massively buff Medium as well.

Wouldn't removing last wills nerf jani and forger a lot though? I mean, those roles basically have half of their utility removed just like that.

[Dragnier]

Maybe a Medium could have access to a dead person's original will, in case it was forged/cleaned? If the dead player remained online, he could provide the exact same info, so if they leave early it won't be an issue anymore. Of course, many evils can fake claim medium arguing wills are forged because only the real medium can read the original ones.

Still keeping an accurate will would be a responsibility of the dead townies. The results of the last night when the townie dies are forever lost if the townie leaves the game.

[StlnSP]

in other words when vigi also rolls medium town will instantly win?

[CapWarrior2]

in other words when vigi also rolls medium town will instantly win?

Or even Mayor.

This doesn't feel like a good way to remove medium at all.

[superboytim]

medium is basically the same as old ret in that it's far worse for competitive than it is good, but would be a fine inclusion outside of competitive modes

reasons for med being bad for competitive off the top of my head:
- dilemma of either having multiple meds be able to confirm each other, or making med unique which would give evils even less claimspace than they already have, both of which are bad
- highly situational utility, a large amount of which is dependent on certain roles existing or not, making game-to-game utility highly variable. the best example of this that comes to mind is medium making ambusher negative utility simply by existing
- low skill floor & low skill ceiling, essentially anyone can be at least decent with the role given they're not afk or throwing, and medium doesn't really grant much that would allow a very skilled player to be much more effective than a mediocre player
- disproportionately low general utility in comparison to the rest of the town roles (given medium isn't unique), contributing to differences in how much impact each town member has in affecting their win chances

reasons it's good for competitive:
- kinda interesting concept ig? allows for certain skill sets that will be erased if it doesn't exist, but the same can be said for like every role in the game so

old ret doesn't exist now so whether dead leave or not it doesn't matter without medium, so it's not like medium needs to exist to encourage dead players to not leave

the simple solution would be to simply remove medium from competitive modes and keep it in non-competitive modes, but given the devs didn't do that with ret i doubt they'd do it with medium

i don't see how your suggestion is really helping to remove the major flaws of medium as it is, it's a unique medium (still very problematic, probably more problematic than the current version of medium) given to a person who already has a role. it also brings about new issues such as 1 person controlling 2 roles would mean giving one town member a generally greater impact on town's win chances than other town members have, and it would also be hard to utilise both role's abilities effectively, especially given how little time there is in ToS

[Yemac]

I think what someone said earlier - reworking medium -, could be very nice, but the question then is how. If medium can't see dead chat, and only wills, that would make medium even more situational. Only useful for forger and janitor.

I did like the situation where medium can see the last result of a player (without being able to see dead chat). So if an invest gets killed, they can get the invest results. Or even all their results like "X was witched" "X was ambushed by Y". You could still confirm multiple mediums by having the same wills, but if it's a 3 med game not all meds are instantly confirmed by dead chat.

I don't know if this will buff medium too much, but at least dead chat can't confirm a med and you don't have the "post dead chat" meta that has a medium level skill requirement.

I still think there are better ways, but at least med doesn't rely on dead people that can literally confirm everyone. Maybe to counter it med can't sceance anymore. Or have med have the ability to only once talk to the dead while alive. Something so that 3 meds can't get confirmed by 1 towny and claiming it is easier when you don't have to type 200 fake lines of dialouge to fake it

[SilverCruz]

Yeah this post was a dud.