New Witch Wincon

[RiceHatMan]

Old:
"Live to see the Town lose"
New:
"Live to see only killers left alive"

"killers" includes: Town Killing, Mafia Killing, Neutral Killing, and Neutral Chaos

Witch cannot win with other witches. (Could be changed)

What this means is Witch will meet their wincon when the only people that are alive, aside from the Witch, are killers. Witch wins when they win, and don't need to live to the end of the game as long as they are alive when only killers are left.

[Joacgroso]

What's the point of this? If witches are supposed to help evils, they shouldn't be able to side with town. They also shouldn't be encouraged to kill other evils (witches). If their goal was changed, it should be "survive to see the town destruction", which means outliving the whole town. But I'm not sure if that's necessary.

[RiceHatMan]

What's the point of this? If witches are supposed to help evils, they shouldn't be able to side with town. They also shouldn't be encouraged to kill other evils (witches). If their goal was changed, it should be "survive to see the town destruction", which means outliving the whole town. But I'm not sure if that's necessary.

Most killers in a game are evil, so it would be much harder to help Town (since you would have to dwindle them down to a Jailor and Town Killing). Witch is "supposed" to help evils, but as with the rest of the Neutral Evils, there should at least be some leeway, or else Witch relies too much on evils to win.

[Joacgroso]

I think NE roles shouldn't be able to win with town, to reduce the swing. I know this makes jesters and exes bad neutral evils, but that's what they are. Since the NE slot was removed from ranked, I see no reason not to move jesters to the NB slot, which fits them much better. Exes could be moved too. Alternatively, I saw someone suggesting a new alignement called "neutral lynching" that includes exes and jesters, which could also work.
As someone pointed out in another thread, the winning faction would still have to lose at least half its members in order to let the witch win, which isn't that evil-sided.
Also, why should witches be forced to kill NBs and NEs?

[RiceHatMan]

I think NE roles shouldn't be able to win with town, to reduce the swing. I know this makes jesters and exes bad neutral evils, but that's what they are. Since the NE slot was removed from ranked, I see no reason not to move jesters to the NB slot, which fits them much better. Exes could be moved too. Alternatively, I saw someone suggesting a new alignement called "neutral lynching" that includes exes and jesters, which could also work.
As someone pointed out in another thread, the winning faction would still have to lose at least half its members in order to let the witch win, which isn't that evil-sided.
Also, why should witches be forced to kill NBs and NEs?

I guess it's just my opinion.

The same could be said that why shouldn't Witch need to kill NBs and NEs? I guess it would make the job harder, but the only problematic NB is Survivor and NEs don't need to live to the end of the game to win. Survivor should have some competition, the role's kind of boring to play.

[Joacgroso]

But the point of witches is hurting town, not hurting neutrals. Survivors already have their trouble, since if they fakeclaim they risk getting killed by other factions, but if they claim surv they risk being killed by town. It's not like they are left alone.