Reviving Change

[RiceHatMan]

Changes:
- Retributionist and Necromancer will be able to target all bodies that haven't rotted, including cleaned, stoned, non-Town (in the case of Retributionist), and roles that can't be revived normally
- They will use the true ability of the body, meaning this will bypass clean, stone, and forge
- There will be no effect if a non-resurrectable target was resurrected, but they will still visit the dead body. In the case of Retributionist, nothing will happen if the target's true ability was non-Town
Additional Notes:
Necromancer can finally use stoned bodies. Now, Janitor and Forger will not be able to act as a support role and prevent Necromancer or Retributionist from using a important body. Now, it is more consistent with the ability to visit unusable bodies without a Forger or (old)Disguiser.

[MafiaxSK]

This change would make ret and necro so similar that they’re basically the same role working for different factions. It makes sense flavor-wise that the retributionist will only revive the “true-hearted dead” aka town. If rets could revive mafia or NK roles then it would make them both OP vigis and a giant threat to town if they make a mistake or decide to throw. If ret could revive cleaned or stoned roles then that breaks the whole only-reviving-town part, which I think is pretty important to keep.

Necro could revive cleaned or stoned roles I guess, although it might be more confusing than helpful to the coven. Imo they should only be able to revive stoned roles and not cleaned, since it’s their own Medusa who did the stoning and therefore they should know what role the stoned person is.

I think revives bypass the forged role already? I’m not completely sure, but it should if it doesn’t. I know there were some bugs with that. Also, being able to revive a non-visiting role doesn’t really add anything to the game except confusing people into thinking that they can get kills with the dead vet or something, so that particular change would be superfluous at best and detrimental at worst.

[DiamondRanger8]

This change would make ret and necro so similar that they’re basically the same role working for different factions. It makes sense flavor-wise that the retributionist will only revive the “true-hearted dead” aka town. If rets could revive mafia or NK roles then it would make them both OP vigis and a giant threat to town if they make a mistake or decide to throw. If ret could revive cleaned or stoned roles then that breaks the whole only-reviving-town part, which I think is pretty important to keep.

Necro could revive cleaned or stoned roles I guess, although it might be more confusing than helpful to the coven. Imo they should only be able to revive stoned roles and not cleaned, since it’s their own Medusa who did the stoning and therefore they should know what role the stoned person is.

I think revives bypass the forged role already? I’m not completely sure, but it should if it doesn’t. I know there were some bugs with that. Also, being able to revive a non-visiting role doesn’t really add anything to the game except confusing people into thinking that they can get kills with the dead vet or something, so that particular change would be superfluous at best and detrimental at worst.

I think he means you can't use the dead body that's stoned or cleaned as retributionist if they aren't a Town role or a role they can't use the ability of.

[RiceHatMan]

This change would make ret and necro so similar that they’re basically the same role working for different factions. It makes sense flavor-wise that the retributionist will only revive the “true-hearted dead” aka town. If rets could revive mafia or NK roles then it would make them both OP vigis and a giant threat to town if they make a mistake or decide to throw. If ret could revive cleaned or stoned roles then that breaks the whole only-reviving-town part, which I think is pretty important to keep.

Necro could revive cleaned or stoned roles I guess, although it might be more confusing than helpful to the coven. Imo they should only be able to revive stoned roles and not cleaned, since it’s their own Medusa who did the stoning and therefore they should know what role the stoned person is.

I think revives bypass the forged role already? I’m not completely sure, but it should if it doesn’t. I know there were some bugs with that. Also, being able to revive a non-visiting role doesn’t really add anything to the game except confusing people into thinking that they can get kills with the dead vet or something, so that particular change would be superfluous at best and detrimental at worst.

I think he means you can't use the dead body that's stoned or cleaned as retributionist if they aren't a Town role or a role they can't use the ability of.

Yeah, there is now just an option to select it if you think the body is usable. If you didn't know, Retributionist cannot use a forged role if the fake role is non-Town, meaning Forger can prevent a Retributionist from using a dead body if they forge a Vigilante into a Veteran.

[MafiaxSK]

That’s there to prevent the retri from hard-countering the forger, I guess. What happens if, let’s say, a framer is forged as a vig. Can a ret use their body to shoot someone?

[RiceHatMan]

That’s there to prevent the retri from hard-countering the forger, I guess. What happens if, let’s say, a framer is forged as a vig. Can a ret use their body to shoot someone?

No, nothing will happen. Retributionist can still select it and be fooled since nothing will happen afterward.

[RiceHatMan]

Needs for feedback.

[RiceHatMan]

Needs. More. Feedback.

[Soulshade55r]

Needs for feedback.

Needs less feedback.

Personally I think retri and necro are currently fine

[kyuss420]

Needs for feedback.

Needs less feedback.

Personally I think retri and necro are currently fine

Same. Adding the TI roles to necromancer was already a big improvement. Changing it so ret can use any dead killer, just makes it a better TK than vigi....he can send WW to the GF/CL or any NK, so theyre no longer ''town'' immune....

Half the point of cleaning/stoning is to counter any retributionist.... if the mode has a role list, only dummies wouldnt know what role is cleaned/stoned anyway, so ret wouldnt be guessing at what theyre controlling.....and if they are dummies, then they would find out roles by controlling, which completley counters janitor and medusa and makes those roles kinda pointless.

Also they can visit bodies in the graveyard that they cant use, and be tracked to that person...Ive seen dumb ass necros who cant handle not pushing a button at night get outed by trackers a lot... visiting GAs, trappers, mediums etc.

[syjfwbaobfwl]

Needs for feedback.

Needs less feedback.

Personally I think retri and necro are currently fine

Same. Adding the TI roles to necromancer was already a big improvement. Changing it so ret can use any dead killer, just makes it a better TK than vigi....he can send WW to the GF/CL or any NK, so theyre no longer ''town'' immune....

Half the point of cleaning/stoning is to counter any retributionist.... if the mode has a role list, only dummies wouldnt know what role is cleaned/stoned anyway, so ret wouldnt be guessing at what theyre controlling.....and if they are dummies, then they would find out roles by controlling, which completley counters janitor and medusa and makes those roles kinda pointless.

Also they can visit bodies in the graveyard that they cant use, and be tracked to that person...Ive seen dumb ass necros who cant handle not pushing a button at night get outed by trackers a lot... visiting GAs, trappers, mediums etc.

You ate right, except the first part, he said that they can visit the body but if its a role they cant use then nothing will happen

[OreCreeper]

Needs for feedback.

Needs less feedback.

Personally I think retri and necro are currently fine

Same. Adding the TI roles to necromancer was already a big improvement. Changing it so ret can use any dead killer, just makes it a better TK than vigi....he can send WW to the GF/CL or any NK, so theyre no longer ''town'' immune....

Half the point of cleaning/stoning is to counter any retributionist.... if the mode has a role list, only dummies wouldnt know what role is cleaned/stoned anyway, so ret wouldnt be guessing at what theyre controlling.....and if they are dummies, then they would find out roles by controlling, which completley counters janitor and medusa and makes those roles kinda pointless.

Also they can visit bodies in the graveyard that they cant use, and be tracked to that person...Ive seen dumb ass necros who cant handle not pushing a button at night get outed by trackers a lot... visiting GAs, trappers, mediums etc.

I disagree. Janitor is Mafia Deception, not Support, so the only way they should be "supporting" the mafia is by hiding or changing information. This does not including "roleblocking" specific roles or preventing them from doing their jobs. Also, necromancers should definitely be able to use stoned roles, since the primary method of early killing for coven is CL controlling players into the medusa, and this shouldn't prevent necromancer from being able to do their job. If necromancers can use stoned roles, then they should also be able to use cleaned roles for the sake of consistency, and so should the retributionist for the same reason.

[Joacgroso]

It makes sense for necros to use the bodies of people cleaned by their own faction, and it also makes sense for janitors to prevent other factions from using the bodies they kill. I don't see a problem with that. It makes sense for necros to benefit from their faction while being countered by other factions.