Ranked Rolelists

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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby DecDecAttack » Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:22 am

Here's a random idea, based on other posts around the thread mostly. Spoiler: Town Killing
Town Protection
Town Protection
Town Support
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Killing
Neutral Killing
Neutral Evil
Neutral not Killing

Spoiler: So, an NnK slot is just a RN slot that can't roll NK.
This can be replaced by RN if it is to hard to program.
Vampires are not banned, but they can only have a factional max of 2 vampires at any one time.
Amnesiacs cannot push vampires past 2 vampires.
The Factional max is to discourage game throwing for conversion.
All NKs (except SK) are Unique (SK having a max of 2 SKs).
If no MK rolls, then TMK will take place.
If TMK is not implemented, then a MK will always roll.

I might be forgetting something, so tell me if there is anything that needs clarification.
Last edited by DecDecAttack on Sun May 01, 2022 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Soulshade55r » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:56 pm

DecDecAttack wrote:Here's a random idea, based on other posts around the thread mostly. Spoiler: Town Killing
Town Protection
Town Protection
Town Support
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Killing
Neutral Killing
Neutral Evil
Neutral not Killing
Random Neutral

Spoiler: So, an NnK slot is just a RN slot that can't roll NK.
This can be replaced by RN if it is to hard to program.
Vampires are not banned, but they can only have a factional max of 2 vampires at any one time.
Amnesiacs cannot push vampires past 2 vampires.
The Factional max is to discourage game throwing for conversion.
All NKs (except SK) are Unique (SK having a max of 2 SKs).
If no MK rolls, then TMK will take place.
If TMK is not implemented, then a MK will always roll.

I might be forgetting something, so tell me if there is anything that needs clarification.


wouldn't that be 16 players? 2 NKs is a really bad idea for ranked.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby DecDecAttack » Sun May 01, 2022 10:09 am

Soulshade55r wrote:
DecDecAttack wrote:Here's a random idea, based on other posts around the thread mostly. Spoiler: Town Killing
Town Protection
Town Protection
Town Support
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Killing
Neutral Killing
Neutral Evil
Neutral not Killing
Random Neutral

Spoiler: So, an NnK slot is just a RN slot that can't roll NK.
This can be replaced by RN if it is to hard to program.
Vampires are not banned, but they can only have a factional max of 2 vampires at any one time.
Amnesiacs cannot push vampires past 2 vampires.
The Factional max is to discourage game throwing for conversion.
All NKs (except SK) are Unique (SK having a max of 2 SKs).
If no MK rolls, then TMK will take place.
If TMK is not implemented, then a MK will always roll.

I might be forgetting something, so tell me if there is anything that needs clarification.


wouldn't that be 16 players? 2 NKs is a really bad idea for ranked.


I have taken out the RN slot, i did not really mean to add it in after thought also i thought this would be a good change of pace for ranked.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun May 01, 2022 8:05 pm

Vamps not banned? NO
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby DecDecAttack » Sun May 01, 2022 9:31 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Vamps not banned? NO


Oh but that's the point. *Maniacal Laughter* *Serial Killer's Smile*
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun May 01, 2022 9:51 pm

DecDecAttack wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:
DecDecAttack wrote:Here's a random idea, based on other posts around the thread mostly. Spoiler: Town Killing
Town Protection
Town Protection
Town Support
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Killing
Neutral Killing
Neutral Evil
Neutral not Killing
Random Neutral

Spoiler: So, an NnK slot is just a RN slot that can't roll NK.
This can be replaced by RN if it is to hard to program.
Vampires are not banned, but they can only have a factional max of 2 vampires at any one time.
Amnesiacs cannot push vampires past 2 vampires.
The Factional max is to discourage game throwing for conversion.
All NKs (except SK) are Unique (SK having a max of 2 SKs).
If no MK rolls, then TMK will take place.
If TMK is not implemented, then a MK will always roll.

I might be forgetting something, so tell me if there is anything that needs clarification.


wouldn't that be 16 players? 2 NKs is a really bad idea for ranked.


I have taken out the RN slot, i did not really mean to add it in after thought also i thought this would be a good change of pace for ranked.


While im kind of alright on 1 nk depending on the list, I don't think 2 nks leads to good games, 3 kpn+ is really bad for a well balanced ranked match like Tos.

Other issues is
1. Random Jaior
2. 8 Starting town is too small.
3. The town list has 2 supports and 2 protects 100% with no investigative (Which i feel needs at least one, probably two.
4. The ability for vamps.
5. A rng TMK, like rolling mafioso would basically be rolling a turd that hinders mafias ability to kill
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Soulshade55r » Sun May 01, 2022 10:02 pm

My idea for a TMK list is this

Spoiler: Jailor
Town Killing
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Evil (Not Jester/executioner)


Keep in mind 5v10 would be way more balanced if scum had TMK and we allowed some certain nerfs to power roles such as Jailor, nerfs to roles such as Spy, Transporter and in general removed easy hard confirmations, this would also consider NE as a "mafia unaware role, where they share the objective of removing all down but don't know the mafia. This doesn't consider jester and exe as true neutral evils because jester has a benign wincon, exe has a scum sided wincon but it can still win with town and can still become jester.

6v9 doesn't work in a balanced game mode, scum only have a disadvantage so much as of now because the meta allows town to easily confirm players. We need ways that jailor can easily be countered outed, ways where tp and lo don't lump into one person and easily confirm each tp epically if the spy decides they want to exist.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby WaveAqualei » Sun May 01, 2022 10:55 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:My idea for a TMK list is this

Spoiler: Jailor
Town Killing
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Evil (Not Jester/executioner)


Keep in mind 5v10 would be way more balanced if scum had TMK and we allowed some certain nerfs to power roles such as Jailor, nerfs to roles such as Spy, Transporter and in general removed easy hard confirmations, this would also consider NE as a "mafia unaware role, where they share the objective of removing all down but don't know the mafia. This doesn't consider jester and exe as true neutral evils because jester has a benign wincon, exe has a scum sided wincon but it can still win with town and can still become jester.

6v9 doesn't work in a balanced game mode, scum only have a disadvantage so much as of now because the meta allows town to easily confirm players. We need ways that jailor can easily be countered outed, ways where tp and lo don't lump into one person and easily confirm each tp epically if the spy decides they want to exist.

Would NE just be Witch?
Also your "Favorite Roles to Play" doesn't have NK there (unless that was intentional, NK is boring lol)
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby DecDecAttack » Mon May 02, 2022 5:46 am

WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:My idea for a TMK list is this

Spoiler: Jailor
Town Killing
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Evil (Not Jester/executioner)


Keep in mind 5v10 would be way more balanced if scum had TMK and we allowed some certain nerfs to power roles such as Jailor, nerfs to roles such as Spy, Transporter and in general removed easy hard confirmations, this would also consider NE as a "mafia unaware role, where they share the objective of removing all down but don't know the mafia. This doesn't consider jester and exe as true neutral evils because jester has a benign wincon, exe has a scum sided wincon but it can still win with town and can still become jester.

6v9 doesn't work in a balanced game mode, scum only have a disadvantage so much as of now because the meta allows town to easily confirm players. We need ways that jailor can easily be countered outed, ways where tp and lo don't lump into one person and easily confirm each tp epically if the spy decides they want to exist.

Would NE just be Witch?
Also your "Favorite Roles to Play" doesn't have NK there (unless that was intentional, NK is boring lol)


I think that was them slyly yelling at us (the testing grounds) for not having given the devs anymore NEs yet, but rn it would be yes
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby WaveAqualei » Tue May 03, 2022 10:13 am

DecDecAttack wrote:
WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:My idea for a TMK list is this

Spoiler: Jailor
Town Killing
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Evil (Not Jester/executioner)


Keep in mind 5v10 would be way more balanced if scum had TMK and we allowed some certain nerfs to power roles such as Jailor, nerfs to roles such as Spy, Transporter and in general removed easy hard confirmations, this would also consider NE as a "mafia unaware role, where they share the objective of removing all down but don't know the mafia. This doesn't consider jester and exe as true neutral evils because jester has a benign wincon, exe has a scum sided wincon but it can still win with town and can still become jester.

6v9 doesn't work in a balanced game mode, scum only have a disadvantage so much as of now because the meta allows town to easily confirm players. We need ways that jailor can easily be countered outed, ways where tp and lo don't lump into one person and easily confirm each tp epically if the spy decides they want to exist.

Would NE just be Witch?
Also your "Favorite Roles to Play" doesn't have NK there (unless that was intentional, NK is boring lol)


I think that was them slyly yelling at us (the testing grounds) for not having given the devs anymore NEs yet, but rn it would be yes

Lol
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Soulshade55r » Wed May 04, 2022 1:14 am

WaveAqualei wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:My idea for a TMK list is this

Spoiler: Jailor
Town Killing
Town Investigative
Town Investigative
Town Protective
Town Support
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Mafia Support
Mafia Deception
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Neutral Evil (Not Jester/executioner)


Keep in mind 5v10 would be way more balanced if scum had TMK and we allowed some certain nerfs to power roles such as Jailor, nerfs to roles such as Spy, Transporter and in general removed easy hard confirmations, this would also consider NE as a "mafia unaware role, where they share the objective of removing all Town but don't know the mafia. This doesn't consider jester and exe as true neutral evils because jester has a benign wincon, exe has a scum sided wincon but it can still win with town and can still become jester.

6v9 doesn't work in a balanced game mode, scum only have a disadvantage so much as of now because the meta allows town to easily confirm players. We need ways that jailor can easily be countered outed, ways where tp and lo don't lump into one person and easily confirm each tp epically if the spy decides they want to exist.

Would NE just be Witch?
Also your "Favorite Roles to Play" doesn't have NK there (unless that was intentional, NK is boring lol)


Almost like i wrote it in the OP
"this would also consider NE as a "mafia unaware role, where they share the objective of removing all Town but don't know the mafia. This doesn't consider jester and exe as true neutral evils because jester has a benign wincon, exe has a scum sided wincon but it can still win with town and can still become jester." This means their should be 1 or 2 new ne's for varity instead of just "witch"

Yeah nk sucks to play as, I find sk ok? I'll be honest werewolf and arsonist are the worst for me to play as. I don't consider any nk enjoyable.

Biggest problem with nk and nb is theirs no casual game mode with randoms, THEIR NEEDS TO BE a more advanced version of classic, with a Jailor, all RTS/TIS/TPS/ECT Some slots for neutrals and mafia.., Its a major issue that something like nk isn't used anymore outside of all any like neutral benigns
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Stadelia » Thu May 05, 2022 12:03 am

Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Soulshade55r » Thu May 05, 2022 5:48 am

Stadelia wrote:Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.

I mean i think exe shouldn't be in ranked or be reworked so it can't side with town. Biggest issue is that town is currently really overpowered. So that something like 5v10 (Which should be actually a bit scum sided) is really really town sided. Due to countless roles such as Jailor, Transporter, Spies ect. The mafia need more ways to counter obvious tp protection spam, like on the Jailor who outs d1.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby wozearly » Tue May 10, 2022 8:34 pm

Soulshade55r wrote:
Stadelia wrote:Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.

I mean i think exe shouldn't be in ranked or be reworked so it can't side with town. Biggest issue is that town is currently really overpowered. So that something like 5v10 (Which should be actually a bit scum sided) is really really town sided. Due to countless roles such as Jailor, Transporter, Spies ect. The mafia need more ways to counter obvious tp protection spam, like on the Jailor who outs d1.


Exe is a 'schrodinger' role whose potential existence affects the trustworthiness of early TI claims.

In the absence of the possibility of an Executioner, pretty much any early TI claim can be trusted implicitly and acted on because the worst case scenario is that it's a Mafia play for a mislynch which, in itself, reveals the Mafia member faking TI. Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

The problem is that through a combination of independently sensible reasons, Exe is capable of being town-sided and still meeting its win conditions. In the new Ranked, the NE slot is pretty much required to be an outright Mafia ally for balancing in the absence of a credible neutral faction, but Exe doesn't fit this purpose as well as the Jester or Witch. One of the better suggestions to fix this was to bar the Exe from voting once it's win condition has been achieved.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Tue May 10, 2022 8:58 pm

Exe either needs to be reworked so that it can no longer win with town or just moved out of rank, same with jester
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Brilliand » Wed May 11, 2022 6:13 am

wozearly wrote:Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.


And what's to stop Town from happily giving the exe his win, killing the executioner, and coming out on top - even assuming we somehow made it impossible for the Town to get the better outcome where the exe sides with them?

The fact that what Exe does isn't what a fifth mafia member would do indicates that what Exe does isn't something that helps the Mafia very much.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby Soulshade55r » Wed May 11, 2022 1:16 pm

wozearly wrote:
Soulshade55r wrote:
Stadelia wrote:Fired up old AF account to come mention that the last few games have had exe siding town. Maf lost every one without coming close to a victory. Classic ranked is currently: 10 townies, 4 mafia, 1 witch, where 1 of those townies CAN NEVER DIE TO ANYTHING *except* lynching and the Jailor. That townie? The executioner.
Worse still is the sheer toxicity it brings out in everyone in the game.

I mean i think exe shouldn't be in ranked or be reworked so it can't side with town. Biggest issue is that town is currently really overpowered. So that something like 5v10 (Which should be actually a bit scum sided) is really really town sided. Due to countless roles such as Jailor, Transporter, Spies ect. The mafia need more ways to counter obvious tp protection spam, like on the Jailor who outs d1.


Exe is a 'schrodinger' role whose potential existence affects the trustworthiness of early TI claims.

In the absence of the possibility of an Executioner, pretty much any early TI claim can be trusted implicitly and acted on because the worst case scenario is that it's a Mafia play for a mislynch which, in itself, reveals the Mafia member faking TI. Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.

The problem is that through a combination of independently sensible reasons, Exe is capable of being town-sided and still meeting its win conditions. In the new Ranked, the NE slot is pretty much required to be an outright Mafia ally for balancing in the absence of a credible neutral faction, but Exe doesn't fit this purpose as well as the Jester or Witch. One of the better suggestions to fix this was to bar the Exe from voting once it's win condition has been achieved.



I Made a exe/jester role ideas that are more towards the "Neutral evil" status. Which would possibly be a fix Also Jester is the worst offender Imo, as town doesn't care it's a easy Jailor Inno rest guilty meta. No one fears it enough to be a problem.

Spoiler:
Role Name: Executioner

Role Alignment: Neutral Evil

Attributes:
-If attack at night by a evil, you will survive but lose your immunity.

Abilities:
-During the night You may select a target to frame as another role. (Like how forger selects)
-Targeting someone will mark them as your target for the day.
-If your target is lynched they will show up as that role you framed them as.

Goal: Town doesn't win and that one of your targets get lynched.



Role Name: Jester

Role Alignment:Neutral Evil


Attributes:
-If attack at night by a evil, you will survive but lose your immunity.
-If you are lynched all town members who voted guilty or abstained will not be able to make actions tonight. (Super roleblock including escorts/jailors), only applies to the Town faction.

Abilities:
-Target someone, if they vote guilty or abstain on voting on you the next day they will be haunted and dealt a unstoppable attack if they were a member of town.

Goal: Town doesn't win and You get lynched.
Favourite Roles (To play)
Spoiler: Town: Jailor
Mafia: Consort
NE: Witch
NB: Guardian Angel
Coven: Necromancer
NC: Pirate
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby James2 » Wed May 11, 2022 9:47 pm

Brilliand wrote:
wozearly wrote:Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.


And what's to stop Town from happily giving the exe his win, killing the executioner, and coming out on top - even assuming we somehow made it impossible for the Town to get the better outcome where the exe sides with them?

The fact that what Exe does isn't what a fifth mafia member would do indicates that what Exe does isn't something that helps the Mafia very much.

Exe doesn't do what a fifth mafia member was, but neither does it do what a tenth townie would. Its existence is better for each side than having an extra member of the opposing faction, which is proper for a neutral role.

If overt false accusations become sufficiently common, lynching accusers first can become an optimal play for town, and there have been times (in RP anyway) where lynching accusers first was the meta, at least for certain types of accusations (e.g. d2 sheriffs). If Exe is regarded as evil simpliciter this will lead (and at times has led) to oscillation of the meta (more overt false accusations->more accusers lynched first->less overt false accusations->less accusers lynched first->more overt false accusations). The possibility of Town giving the win to cooperative Exes disrupts this, but aside from that I don't think there's a problem.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby alex1234321 » Thu May 12, 2022 9:20 am

James2 wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
wozearly wrote:Town can almost always happily exchange a mislynch for a Mafia lynch and come out on top, which would even further discourage Mafia from early fake TI claims.


And what's to stop Town from happily giving the exe his win, killing the executioner, and coming out on top - even assuming we somehow made it impossible for the Town to get the better outcome where the exe sides with them?

The fact that what Exe does isn't what a fifth mafia member would do indicates that what Exe does isn't something that helps the Mafia very much.

Exe doesn't do what a fifth mafia member was, but neither does it do what a tenth townie would. Its existence is better for each side than having an extra member of the opposing faction, which is proper for a neutral role.

If overt false accusations become sufficiently common, lynching accusers first can become an optimal play for town, and there have been times (in RP anyway) where lynching accusers first was the meta, at least for certain types of accusations (e.g. d2 sheriffs). If Exe is regarded as evil simpliciter this will lead (and at times has led) to oscillation of the meta (more overt false accusations->more accusers lynched first->less overt false accusations->less accusers lynched first->more overt false accusations). The possibility of Town giving the win to cooperative Exes disrupts this, but aside from that I don't think there's a problem.


The biggest problem with Exe is that it's a kingmaker. I like the idea of having a role that benefits from lynching Townies even if it dies in the process. But it should be strictly evil since otherwise you get situations where it can choose the winner at will.

The other problem is that it has its target picked randomly, which means that its chances of winning can change drastically depending on whether its target is a Sheriff or a Veteran or whether they're skilled versus dumb for that matter.
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Re: Ranked Rolelists

Postby michelletippets » Sat Dec 24, 2022 3:26 pm

Is it possible to create modes of game play where people can only play after they have reached a certain level? I have already reached master. Starting over in ranked has no appeal and playing the game always puts me in with new players. I am finding it more difficult to get good games. I took a 2 year break for this very reason and coming back it just seems worse.It is very frustrating and my losses are going up because I am being lynched by people who do not know how to play the game. UGH I used to love to play TOS but now it is a cluster F
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