Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

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Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby JodasIC » Tue May 03, 2022 5:55 pm

I'm sure almost everyone who actually enjoys this game is tired of the intentional throwers that target Town of Salem. I'm not talking about the Vig or Jailor who killed town thinking they were evil or the GF that targets alerted Vet...mistakes happen and all of us get fooled, miss a vital clue and commit actions that some mistake to be throwing. I'm talking about the ones that join just to spam, out mafia D1 or intentionally use OP roles like Jailor/Mayor to throw. I know in this day & age that permanently blocking someone from accessing your site or game is virtually impossible, and even the $5 paywall that was setup to help avoid this...clearly hasn't done much (beyond rightfully support a fun game).

Legit players do their best to report throwers, but there aren't enough staff around to go through and take action in the moment. There's no way to get in touch with an admin in the moment...while the culprit is actively ruining games...to make them stop. So you're forced to essentially abandon games when you see their name pop up in the lobby....and hope they'll eventually be taken care of.

At least for Classic and Ranked Practice modes you can see who is in the lobby before it starts....so this suggestion is really only useful in these modes:

It would be great if the majority could vote to kick somebody out of the lobby before the game starts. Give the community a chance to moderate their own games. It's quite often that those that stay to the end and play back to back games...tend to end up in the same lobby over and over again. Allow this group of players to help inform others and remove problematic players from ruining the next match.

You could even introduce a honor system of some sort that's visible to everyone...and curated by everyone. It's determined by the number of reports filed against the account. This honor level is displayed in the lobby so the majority know who shouldn't stick around. I understand that a system like this will result in salty people giving salty reports...but typically the type of person I'm seeking to help eliminate would likely be reported in greater numbers & more frequently that you'd be able to tell the difference between a couple salty reports across many games and almost everyone in the game reporting them every game.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue May 03, 2022 9:57 pm

/Support

I'm so tired of mafia losing due to these children born out of wedlock.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Wed May 04, 2022 10:41 am

This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:

This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.

As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.

Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby DecDecAttack » Wed May 04, 2022 12:32 pm

Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:

This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.

As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.

Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.


Me seeing if the second one is possible: what if it shows the # of bans? Incase a ban is repealed you will know that that happened? Or it could also show know alta bans?
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Boredfan1 » Wed May 04, 2022 12:38 pm

Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:

This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.

As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.

Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.


Or you could tie it to the trial system so abusing it is literally a punishable offense.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby JodasIC » Wed May 04, 2022 10:36 pm

People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.


Ok, I can see this happening. At first I figured only a couple people would be salty enough to vote a non-thrower up, but we've all seen it happen IG where it only takes couple to lead the masses to vote...so I could certainly see trolls or immature people convincing everyone someone is a thrower to keep innocent people out of the game. Although tying it to the trial system could work...let people voted up unfairly report it...and as long as you guys can see the lobby chat, you'd be able to tell who forced the vote....versus gullible bystanders who didn't want a rigged game. Those that are kicked unfairly can easily join in on the next lobby.

And to be honest...I'd rather be kicked from a lobby before the game starts because of a troll and move on to a new lobby without a troll...rather than get into the game and still have it ruined + more of my time wasted by the same troll.

The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules.


Well, I didn't realize that...if that's the case then my suggestion certainly won't help matters. I assume the type of accounts I'm trying to target are banned permanently once found? Not just suspended temporarily...and allowed to return? Those being the ones who are found to have spammed nonsense and never bothered to try to play their role, those that out Mafia D1, or those that clearly take action to throw with their role?

there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.


Ahh I actually did look for a Discord link before I posted this. I didn't see anything on the website or within the game, kinda expected it by the social media links. Could you provide an invite to the Discord? That would absolutely be a great way to get in contact with an admin to help stop throwers in the moment. I didn't think you guys had anything setup for instant contact. You really should advertise your Discord more...getting your legit players more involved in reporting via Discord with screenshots might prove more reliable than the report system. The throwers I want to get rid of make it super obvious...it's easy to screenshot proof to and easy for admins to verify. The salty reports you have to sift through to get to the obvious ones must slow things down a bunch!
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby James2 » Sun May 08, 2022 12:44 am

The trial system has enough capacity to deal with gamethrowers. The problem isn't a lack of staff, it's that:

1. They are mainly concerned with policing "offensive" speech, and

2. The anti-gamethrowing rule has evolved from "don't lose on purpose" to "don't engage in the specific actions proscribed in the Trial Guide". The devs have tied their hands regarding anything that doesn't fit within their narrow guidelines. So players are now explicitly allowed to, among other things, purposefully get themselves lynched/executed by refusing to claim on the stand or in jail.

Regarding the paywall, it can be bypassed by watching ads on mobile. So far we haven't had a resurgence of bots, I don't know if that's for technical reasons or if the game just isn't an attractive target anymore.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Sun May 08, 2022 3:45 am

James2 wrote:The trial system has enough capacity to deal with gamethrowers. The problem isn't a lack of staff, it's that:

1. They are mainly concerned with policing "offensive" speech, and

2. The anti-gamethrowing rule has evolved from "don't lose on purpose" to "don't engage in the specific actions proscribed in the Trial Guide". The devs have tied their hands regarding anything that doesn't fit within their narrow guidelines. So players are now explicitly allowed to, among other things, purposefully get themselves lynched/executed by refusing to claim on the stand or in jail.

Regarding the paywall, it can be bypassed by watching ads on mobile. So far we haven't had a resurgence of bots, I don't know if that's for technical reasons or if the game just isn't an attractive target anymore.


The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O

Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.

As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Sun May 08, 2022 3:49 am

DecDecAttack wrote:
Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:

This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.

As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.

Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.


Me seeing if the second one is possible: what if it shows the # of bans? Incase a ban is repealed you will know that that happened? Or it could also show know alta bans?


For players to see someone's suspension tier ingame, or even whether or not they have an alt and how many suspension tiers that alt would have, would still extremely influence players to immediately assume someone is a bad player. At that point, we again come to the point of basically shadowbanning anyone with a number of guilty reports that people don't want.
Not to mention that the large majority of people who are extremely problematic, usually do not gather more than 1 guilty report before they are banned anyway, not to mention their alts are not always logged.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Sun May 08, 2022 3:51 am

Boredfan1 wrote:
Flavorable wrote:This has been asked and answered multiple times, so I'll keep it short:

This is not something that will be implemented, because it's too easily abused. People can use this to bar anyone from their game that they do not like, basically shadowbanning players that quite possibly have not broken any rules, but whom players simply don't like.

As for an honor system based on the amount of reports against someone: Also not a viable idea. The number of times someone gets reported means absolutely nothing. In fact, the two people with the highest amount of reports (over 300) are people that are not liked, but haven't actually broken the rules. Especially not more than some people with say only 10 reports.

Your best bet to get rid of problematic people is simply to report them. And if they keep doing it over and over on an evening, there is generally always a staff member on Discord whom you can forward the situation to so they can look into it.


Or you could tie it to the trial system so abusing it is literally a punishable offense.


With our current queue already being over 8000, trust me when I say: We do not have time to handle even more things. Look at it like this: Every roughly 30 seconds we have to spend on something else report-related, is another possibly valid report not getting handled in time and thus another possible rulebreaker getting away.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby James2 » Sun May 08, 2022 4:50 pm

Flavorable wrote:The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O

Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.

~80% of guilty reports are for things other than gamethrowing. That can't help with clearing throwing reports.
As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cR ... G_TJE/edit
Gamethrowing
4. While on stand or in jail, making it clear there is intent not to defend oneself. This does not include:
a. Simply not defending oneself.
b. Not saying anything.
c. Not claiming a role.
d. Not posting a will.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79008#p2602136
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun May 08, 2022 6:03 pm

Ok the new rule is fking stupid
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Sun May 08, 2022 6:23 pm

James2 wrote:
Flavorable wrote:The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O

Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.

~80% of guilty reports are for things other than gamethrowing. That can't help with clearing throwing reports.
As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14cR ... G_TJE/edit
Gamethrowing
4. While on stand or in jail, making it clear there is intent not to defend oneself. This does not include:
a. Simply not defending oneself.
b. Not saying anything.
c. Not claiming a role.
d. Not posting a will.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79008#p2602136
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Image


Those last two screenshots are extremely out of context, and outdated.

Those two comments from Shape were about people getting guiltied for simply not claiming a role. And it is not mandatory to claim a role. And as an addition, these screenshots are from OCTOBER 1ST 2018. This is even before the move to pay-2-play, and since this moment, the rule has moved from people getting guiltied for NOT CLAIMING A ROLE, not people getting guiltied for REFUSING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES. So yes, a person that is in jail or on the stand and is simply saying "I refuse to claim" will still get guiltied. However, if they say "I refuse to claim, but I'm town", they're defending themselves.

Image
Image

Just to put it in a bit more context, because it's important to not pull things out of context just so they fit your argument.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby James2 » Sun May 08, 2022 7:09 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Ok the new rule is fking stupid

That rule has been in force for over four years, which is now most of the game's history. Literally everyone who had anything to do with the trial system told the devs it was a stupid decision, some trial people quit over it, but in the end they own the game and can do what they want with it.
Flavorable wrote:Those last two screenshots are extremely out of context, and outdated.

Those two comments from Shape were about people getting guiltied for simply not claiming a role. And it is not mandatory to claim a role. And as an addition, these screenshots are from OCTOBER 1ST 2018. This is even before the move to pay-2-play, and since this moment, the rule has moved from people getting guiltied for NOT CLAIMING A ROLE, not people getting guiltied for REFUSING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.

I don't know how those screenshots could be considered out of context. They're from a dev concerning the exact issue we're talking about, and I posted a link to the thread where this was originally discussed. That they're old hardly matters when the policy is still in effect.
So yes, a person that is in jail or on the stand and is simply saying "I refuse to claim" will still get guiltied. However, if they say "I refuse to claim, but I'm town", they're defending themselves.

Right. So a player who intentionally gets themselves lynched/executed in one way will be suspended, but if they change their words very slightly (without altering their intent or the effect on the game at all) then it's allowed. That is precisely the problem.

Image
Image

Just to put it in a bit more context, because it's important to not pull things out of context just so they fit your argument.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Boredfan1 » Tue May 10, 2022 7:20 pm

Flavorable wrote:
James2 wrote:The trial system has enough capacity to deal with gamethrowers. The problem isn't a lack of staff, it's that:

1. They are mainly concerned with policing "offensive" speech, and

2. The anti-gamethrowing rule has evolved from "don't lose on purpose" to "don't engage in the specific actions proscribed in the Trial Guide". The devs have tied their hands regarding anything that doesn't fit within their narrow guidelines. So players are now explicitly allowed to, among other things, purposefully get themselves lynched/executed by refusing to claim on the stand or in jail.

Regarding the paywall, it can be bypassed by watching ads on mobile. So far we haven't had a resurgence of bots, I don't know if that's for technical reasons or if the game just isn't an attractive target anymore.


The Trial System does not have enough capacity with gamethrowers. o_O

Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.

As for the refusing to claim: That always has been, and to this day still is absolutely guilty, so players are definitely not allowed to refuse to claim on the stand or in jail.


From what I've seen in the trial system, there is a serious issue of misreporting. For example, gamethrows are reported as hatespeech/harassment. I've also seen people just put nothing in for the information section in the categories where more context is needed or stuff that isn't helpful in the slightest. Such reports I've always skipped because they are just too annoying to deal with. But they are pretty common from my limited experience. So reports like these really booster the numbers.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby shapesifter13 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:29 pm

I totally agree the system isn't perfect. It's something that pretty regularly gets brought up internally.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Brilliand » Sun May 22, 2022 3:02 pm

Flavorable wrote:Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.


I wonder if it would help to assume that anyone who won was not gamethrowing (and code the trial system to quietly discard those reports)? While it isn't a 100% reliable rule, it sounds like most of the invalid reports are cases where the "gamethrower" went on to win as a result of their "gamethrowing", while the worst cases of genuine gamethrowing would be those times when someone tried to lose and succeeded in doing so.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Boredfan1 » Sun May 22, 2022 3:57 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Flavorable wrote:Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.


I wonder if it would help to assume that anyone who won was not gamethrowing (and code the trial system to quietly discard those reports)? While it isn't a 100% reliable rule, it sounds like most of the invalid reports are cases where the "gamethrower" went on to win as a result of their "gamethrowing", while the worst cases of genuine gamethrowing would be those times when someone tried to lose and succeeded in doing so.


Nice, idea.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby syjfwbaobfwl » Sun May 22, 2022 8:23 pm

Brilliand wrote:
Flavorable wrote:Just to give a bit of clarity: There's currently 8364 total reports in the queue, over 9 categories. 7511 of those reports are for gamethrowing, the other roughly 800 reports are divided over the other categories. And having run several events with jurors to specifically target the GT queue, experience has learned that generally, at least 80-95% of GT reports we've handled per month are invalid. With the large majority not even remotely being guilty (i.e. A mafia member/jester/exe making town believe they're town and then voting against town and getting reported for it), and only a small number being actually borderline. And even with these Events, the queue still doesn't go down more than it goes up, despite this Event making it so a report does not need a total of 9 votes to get guiltied, but only 1 before it gets sent to Judges/Mods. In the current situation, we'd need 9 votes per report, which means we'd need a total of 67599 votes on the entire queue at this specific moment in time.

Now to put that number of votes into perspective: In the past month, we've had 84 people vote on reports. 60 of them votes on less than 100 reports over 30 days time. 16 of them voted on more than 100, but less than 500, 7 of them voted on more than 1000. So yes, we're definitely under capacity. Now let's say a person is quite a quick reader and takes 30 seconds to load the report, read the report, duplicate where necessary and vote on the report. It would take 1 person 225,330 seconds (Roughly 62.6 hours) to get through the entire queue. And that is if there's no new reports filed whatsoever when said person is doing the queue.


I wonder if it would help to assume that anyone who won was not gamethrowing (and code the trial system to quietly discard those reports)? While it isn't a 100% reliable rule, it sounds like most of the invalid reports are cases where the "gamethrower" went on to win as a result of their "gamethrowing", while the worst cases of genuine gamethrowing would be those times when someone tried to lose and succeeded in doing so.


Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils

Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games

Winning≠not gamethrowing
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Brilliand » Sun May 22, 2022 8:54 pm

syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils

Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games

Winning≠not gamethrowing


Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.

The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby James2 » Mon May 23, 2022 11:05 am

Making people wait until the end of the game to report would probably do more to prevent frivolous gamethrowing reports.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Mon May 23, 2022 8:08 pm

Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils

Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games

Winning≠not gamethrowing


Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.

The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.


Making a handful of reports that are actually valid auto-close won't solve anything. The problem is the thousands of actually invalid reports.

Oh, and edit: Winning does not negate gamethrowing. Image all Kyleongfuel accounts not getting banned when their mafia manages to win the game.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby James2 » Mon May 23, 2022 8:26 pm

Flavorable wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils

Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games

Winning≠not gamethrowing


Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.

The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.


Making a handful of reports that are actually valid auto-close won't solve anything. The problem is the thousands of actually invalid reports.

Oh, and edit: Winning does not negate gamethrowing. Image all Kyleongfuel accounts not getting banned when their mafia manages to win the game.

Which category of gamethrowing reports are more likely to be valid: those where the reported player wins or those where the reported player loses?
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Flavorable » Mon May 23, 2022 9:30 pm

James2 wrote:
Flavorable wrote:
Brilliand wrote:
syjfwbaobfwl wrote:Once I saw mayor lynching 2 confirmed townies (and admited to like lynching confirmed town), town still won that game cause we had 10 townies and only 3 evils

Its not THAT rare to see a townie claiming jailor d1 in rank and trying to get real jailor lynched, even then town still wins some of those games

Winning≠not gamethrowing


Yeah, but given that the gamethrowing queue is so overfull, it doesn't seem worth it to try to preserve every possible instance of gamethrowing for review.

The persistent gamethrowers will probably lose a game where they gamethrew soon enough. After all, if it didn't increase the chances of losing, then it wouldn't be gamethrowing. And it only takes one correctly guiltied report to get punished.


Making a handful of reports that are actually valid auto-close won't solve anything. The problem is the thousands of actually invalid reports.

Oh, and edit: Winning does not negate gamethrowing. Image all Kyleongfuel accounts not getting banned when their mafia manages to win the game.

Which category of gamethrowing reports are more likely to be valid: those where the reported player wins or those where the reported player loses?


There's no real discernable difference in my experience. The biggest amount of invalid reports generally stems from people either reporting a jester/exe/mafia for voting town after making townies believe they're real townies, and from people assuming that they're somehow confirmed town and reporting people for lynching/executing/shooting them.

Image
This is a great example of a spy getting lynched D2 and wanting to report every townie for gamethrowing. Now in this case, since the user was alone in thinking this, no reports got filed, but generally if a person plays with a friend, or a person has convinced someone else that this would magically be gamethrowing, that'd be another batch of invalid reports.
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Re: Allow Community to Help Kick Throwers

Postby Aubrieta » Sat May 28, 2022 5:18 pm

Flavorable wrote:This is a great example of a spy getting lynched D2 and wanting to report every townie for gamethrowing. Now in this case, since the user was alone in thinking this, no reports got filed, but generally if a person plays with a friend, or a person has convinced someone else that this would magically be gamethrowing, that'd be another batch of invalid reports.


Would it help to have a system to categorize and sort the reports by # of reports against each player in the list and the type of report? So that the same problems affecting the greatest amount of people gets looked at first?
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