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Return to: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Game Over

Hyena didn't deserve this.
I'm sorry.

But gj mafia.

I'm never gonna play well in a VFM.
Goodbye.
by Jezz92
Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:41 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Crimson97 wrote:Love how jezz starts a trial on me based on activity when most players were being inactive. They literally have no case on me other than that and the wagon suddenly blows up. They're protecting Royee. Hyena is the only one who gave another motive and it doesn't even make sense.
/Vote guilty Royee

I’m not pushing you for being inactive, I’m saying that the little content you had earlier game doesn’t show town motivated urgency to understand other players, or at least an interest in doing so. I’m keeping availability in mind while reading everyone today, but the things you chose to comment on during your limited availability are what ping me here.

S0me0ne23 wrote:All three viable wagons having pretty much the same make up is not a good sign tbh.

Hyena, non and I are literally the only ones with votes on every current wagon with a few others dribbling in here and there or just not voting at all so idk how you could get anything telling from that.

S0me0ne23 wrote:I accuse LOLingHyena of witchcraft.
/vote Guilty LOLingHyena


/vote LOLingHyena not guilty

I find it interesting that the reason you’re scum reading hyena is pretty much the same reason I think he’s town. Why do you think scum!hyena would have any reason whatsoever to push things the way he is?

Sorry but no I’m gonna WK this as long as both of us are alive.

I’m gonna ask a very direct question: do you think the exact scum team is {Hyena, Non, Jezz} yes/no? Because tbh it seems like that’s what you’ve indirectly speculated and I’m getting to the point where I’m gonna need more direct thoughts from people if I have any chance of figuring this game out.
by Jezz92
Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:06 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

non271103 wrote:Also it's interesting he pops up right after he's put on trial.

I was gonna point this out too but then I called myself a toilet brush and beat my head against the wall for angleshooting.
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:51 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Crimson97 wrote:
Jezz92 wrote:/vote Eragon1329 not guilty

/vote Jalandh not guilty

/vote Phone0Ix not guilty

/vote Multiuniverse guilty

/vote Royee guilty




I accuse Crimson97 of witchcraft

Hey you know what's funny? You accuse me but don't vote.

I didn’t think we could vote before trial was opened by FML
And I’m pretty sure others opened trials without voting straight away as well so you’re just calling mine out because it’s against you.
But okay sure.

/vote Crimson97 guilty

Anything else to say about my accusation since it obviously got your attention?
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:49 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

OptimisticalOne wrote:
JoltikIsDubby wrote:
OptimisticalOne wrote:@Everyone: what do you all think about mass-claiming right now? it's a good idea imo. Would start lots of discussions and save us the possibility of forcing our medium to PR when scum can lie about what they are.
Plus, the medium can only communicate with the dead thrice. It's not a sustainable practice.

Maybe we should just have people claim if they are or aren't a PR? That way, evils won't have as clear of an idea of who to kill at night.

I like this idea as well if everyone's up for it, but we need to figure something out soon.

Both ideas also force Scum to lock in their claim early, which leads them to be less flexible (for lack of a better term) In how they act. Does that make sense? I hope.

More poeple are online now. Jezz, what do you think of this idea?

I’m still against it but I’m pretty sure I’ve made it obvious what I am so idrc as much now tbh
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:41 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

/vote Eragon1329 not guilty

/vote Jalandh not guilty

/vote Phone0Ix not guilty

/vote Multiuniverse guilty

/vote Royee guilty





I accuse Crimson97 of witchcraft
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:36 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Second wall

Spoiler: What I said about joltik earlier was to hopefully get him on the right track and encourage him to do more, yet he hasn’t. Again, I will have no way of knowing if that’s because of unavailability. I mentioned his second post was an improvement on his first but looking back at it I think the post itself is too weak to disregard the first post’s apparent expectation that he can coast and wait for others to do stuff.
(He posted a third post since I did this write up so I may need to re-evaluate this but I need a break now.)

I’m gonna openly admit that I won’t be reading S0me0ne till day 2 if I’m alive, I doubt I’ll die night 1 tbh but I also thought that in VFM 24 and 16E so whatever. I just can’t be confident reading him yet and him being the most experienced player this game, I believe everything he’s posted so far could easily come from either alignment. I don’t get the “obvious town” vibes that I got in some older games (first roll of VFM 16, 12D) but that’s not really enough to tell me anything rn.

Ditto with eragon honestly, I agree yeah I did have the bias of knowing he was town in VFM 39 so that’s probably affecting my read this game. He’s probably the kind of guy who could get away with doing the absolutely minimum as scum so I’m definitely not gonna let him coast the whole game. He’s another one I need more time on so I’m gonna vote not guilty on his trial.

Crimson is quite clearly absent from the game rn. From my experience he doesn’t typically do much early game as either alignment but the little he has done doesn’t show the kind of urgency that’s required for a game like this. Limited interactions, and basically no attempt at sorting.

Chemist has been underwhelming so far but tbh I town read him last game and he was scum so idk this prob means he’s town this time. I think the only reason scum!chemist would intentionally slank is if there was a deepwolf in one of the more present players, which honestly chemist usually is the deepwolf so probably not likely.

Interestingly I was tinfoiling an optimistic/joltik team earlier and was gonna comment on that (I have no idea why it was just a vibe I got, my brain works in mysterious ways) but then I saw optimistic post that stuff about joltik, so I take back this tinfoil. I don’t believe he would choose to call out joltik here if they were scum buddies. I mean optimistic could still be scum without joltik, certainly, not ruling that out yet as I didn’t like some of his overreactions early game. But yeah, the whole “let’s autochain lynch joltik and optimistic as scum buddies” isn’t gonna happen.

Four out of multis five posts are revolving around the trial he started on himself. While I still believe the self-trial is NAI, and it’s bad as either alignment, I don’t like multi’s tunnel vision on this paired with an apparent lack of attempt to do anything else in the game. The fact this his only other post is about PR’s claiming is a ping. This is gonna be a guilty vote, just based on what I have from him.
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:31 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Caution: a lot of text coming. Gonna divide into a couple of posts so it’s a little more tolerable.
FYI I don’t mean to be a bitch or whatever but going back and doing these took like a tonne of effort and I didn’t enjoy it. But again, I do want to play this game and I want to be able to find my feet here and have some sort of direction moving forward, as hard as that may be in a flipless game.

Spoiler: I think that in a game like this it would be easy for scum to take control of the game while doing the bare minimum effort wise. Hyena is probably the most forward this game so far followed by Wabbit, which in theory either of them could be scum taking control but what they’re doing compared to most others is hardly “bare minimum”. It would be incredibly easy to push some of the lowest hanging fruit and I don’t think either of them are doing that maliciously rn.

Hyena appears to be trying to understand player motives, and where player motives are absent he’s attempts to force definitive stances from people. I don’t agree with some of his posts, but that’s normal for me tbh, and the inquisitive and sometimes accusatory tone he gives off is something I don’t believe to be malicious. I’ll take responsibility for this blunder of a read if I’m wrong about him but atm I don’t think I am.
Wabbit’s sort of in the same boat, he’s doing a lot more than I’d expect him to do as scum. Blatant instances of gut as well as constant analytical and inquisitive tone so early in a game are typically good signs for him.

I can see non being town. I mean I still don’t understand the motive for voting guilty just because “they’re not townie enough to vote inno” but don’t really think he’d be that forward as scum. The blatancy kinda reminds me of VFM 28 when he suspected Wabbit and I as scum buddies. While the context between that and what happened this game is quite different, both instances involve him purposely make kind of plays or posts that are most likely gonna draw attention to him, potentially negative attention at that, which I think he more typically does that as town imo.

Ejj is still a gut town read which will only last so long so hopefully he can post more soon.
Jaland is a slight town lean but it’s purely for his openness around his trial results, will need to see more before I can confidently town read him but I’m comfortable voting not guilty on him today.

I find it intriguing that royee appeared to suddenly post less after I pointed out his over-concern for breaching post count limits. What pinged me most is he was making an effort to be really present early game and posted numerous short/interactive posts, yet also showed concerned for post count; like if he was concerned why not make more use out of your posts? And then responded to me with “I don’t really care anymore”, which yano, whatever. I saw no progression in thread between him caring and not caring so I can’t really judge the legitimacy of this claim. It’s just the behaviour itself. This doesn’t really warrant a strong scum read in itself especially with how Christmas has affected everyone’s availability, so his sudden drop could be largely due to that. But change in behaviour is sometimes telling (e.g., if someone suddenly starts posting a lot of lengthy posts after being called out for posting predominately one liners). This is gonna be a guilty vote just for what I’ve seen from him so far.

The thing is with phone is he was also concerned about the post count but I don’t really see a behaviour shift as I did with royee. He’s really done nothing I find that townie but I don’t find anything particularly scummy either. Probably a not guilty for today at least.
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:29 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Taking my cat to the vet this morning but later I’m gonna reread everything to see if I somehow find anything I missed before. Not holding my breath but I need to make sense of this game ASAP.
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:06 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

LOLingHyena wrote:
Jezz92 wrote:Non, I don’t understand your explanation of you voting guilty on all the trials. If you don’t find the targets townie enough to inno, why vote guilty as opposed to just abstaining until you actually have a confident read on them?

Let me ask you this, Jezz. Do you plan on voting either of guilty or not-guilty on Multi or Royee later in the day? The way I feel about all of this is that abstaining from a vote in this type of setup is much worse than voting guilty or not guilty. Yes, I think it'll be hard to get associative reads this game without flips, but what I see right now is people putting more effort into figuring out why Non made those votes (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) instead making an effort to sort Multi or Royee (which IS a bad thing, I think).

I always play with the idea that I’m not gonna vote till I’m confident in my vote. That’s pretty much how I’ve always played and will rarely throw my votes around, except when I’m doing stupid or impulsive things like 16E. I don’t understand voting purely for pressure if you do not have a confident read yet, in my experience it rarely does anything other than possibly a few reactions, like maybe people will panic or whatever but what even does “panicking” mean alignment-wise?

Ideally, yes I would want to place my votes sometime soon, like in the next few hours, and I feel like I will have to eventually make a decision based on what I have, EOD happens while I’m asleep, but there’s really been nothing to sway me on a lot of the targets so far.
Honestly I don’t like current gamestate; I knew it wasn’t gonna be active but the lack of…well…anything, makes me really nervous. This is not like one of my low wim games where I just can’t be bothered or whatever, I can be bothered, I want to play, but I have literally no idea how to progress like anything at current state. This is probably the weirdest I’ve ever felt in FM.

S0me0ne23 wrote:Jezz, what was the last game we played in together?

idk like over a year ago, probably some shitty game like VFM 16 or something.
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:03 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Non, I don’t understand your explanation of you voting guilty on all the trials. If you don’t find the targets townie enough to inno, why vote guilty as opposed to just abstaining until you actually have a confident read on them?

Ejj feels townie a glance but this is purely a gut read and I can’t really elaborate rn till I see more from him.

I am against PR’s claiming but explaining why may benefit scum so I’m gonna hold off for now.
by Jezz92
Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:27 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Multi wasn’t intentionally self-trialing with malicious intent to “waste trials” imo, and I believe that he actually didn’t read the OP, but the self-trial itself is a bad idea for either alignment.

@royee you admit you didn’t read the trial mechanics yourself, before putting jaland up, so why do you have the automatic assumption that multi did read it and self-trialed as a malicious intent to use up a trial?
by Jezz92
Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:33 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

People seem too concerned about the whole “wasting trial” thing imo.
You know how you solve that? You know what to do if you really think it’s gonna be a problem? Just don’t fecking aquit them until you’re sure you want them off trial. From day 2 onwards days are only 48 hours anyway so I really don’t think there should be so much concern over “(name) gets aquitted, oh no now we can’t vote them again for this entire day phase what ever shall we do”. Like, yeah, there’s probably some trials here which shouldn’t have been started but we have a lot of them anyway, probably more than we actually need tbh, so who cares, just aquit the people you want to and keep the others open if you’re not sure yet. It’s really not that hard a concept to grasp guys.

Crimson97 wrote:
Jezz92 wrote:Chemist forgetting jaland is in the playerlist means he’s not scum buddies with jaland probably.

Ejj suggesting a trial on every player is probably townie?? Fakeable, yes but showing comfort in having a trial on every player including yourself (which from a scum POV also includes both your buddies) is something I don’t see very likely coming from scum. Weak read though.


Don't you think the first thing is easily fakable too?

In theory it’s possible, but I don’t really see the point in a flipless game. Out of all the things scum could focus on or fake, idk if they’d think “oh yeah I know a great idea! I’m just gonna pretend I forgot my buddy was in the playerlist so people think we’re not buddies!” In a game like this it doesn’t really serve much purpose imo since they could both technically be lynched if they’re both scum read. It’s kinda why I didn’t want to dwell on the associative reads and it was merely a passing observation, but we can’t really “confirm” it or whatever.
by Jezz92
Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:24 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

S0me0ne23 wrote:It's interesting how people view Wabbit's accusation of Eragon as being a good play even though nothing has really come out of it. Like I think Wabbit is town, but the consensus around him is weird.

The atmosphere around Royee is really weird; nobody's really defending him, the pushes on him are overeager, and I'm pretty sure I'm the only one concerned about this. He could just be a wolf and I'm overthinking this, but I really can't ignore how easy pushing him would be, and how little effort anybody is putting into actually sorting him.

I don’t town read Wabbit for the play and don’t really get how the push on eragon in particular is what made people town read him, I just town read the whole post itself. It was a townie entrance for wabbit imo.
Plus posts after that, yeah, I doubt I’m ever changing my read on him tbh.

Also re royee, sort of feel you there and I want to see what else he posts, but there’s also some people who aren’t that active rn. It’s hardly a unanimous stance tbh, but interested in seeing who else responds to your concern and what they say.
But yeah he is easy to push, I did it in VFM 39 as scum and it was fairly effortless tbh (this comes from someone who absolutely loathes playing scum btw), still hate the term ML bait though and don’t believe it should be a thing, if royee wants us to believe he’s town he has to show us. I think no one has really “come to his defence” cos he has given little to no reason for anyone to do so.
by Jezz92
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:36 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

TheWabbit wrote:I'm really concerned at how people are giving easy Town reads. Eragon1329's proposition of mock trials do nothing regular trials cannot perform. Mock trials potentially limit out posts further: It poses no real threat to scum and would just expend most of our posts in doing one. The limit alleviation 1 hour prior to the end of the day is a bit arbitrary—not everyone may be present within the short interval. That being said, I think their proposition can come from either alignment.

I mean for me it was more of a time thing tbh, fake trial vs like a fos type thing is pretty similar in terms of productivity though imo, I don’t think it would necessarily “limit posts” anymore than if we didn’t do it, because we still have to post while we’re deciding on targets/votes for an actual trial anyway. It’d just be time consuming due to people’s availability and time zones or whatever. But I agree that the suggestion itself is NAI.
by Jezz92
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:29 am
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Btw why are people concerned about the post limit? A lot of the guys who have expressed concern about it probably wouldn’t get anywhere near 35 posts in 48 hours of a regular game anyway so what’s the big issue here?
Keeping an eye on those who are overly cautious and feel the need to mention stuff revolving “watching posts” or “don’t make me waste posts”, who cares, just be concise and try to post more in each post than just one liners if you really are so concerned you’ll go over, aim to post no more than 17 posts per rl day to start with (11 today cos extra day), then you’ll have one spare left (two today), plus the post restriction is lifted in the last hour of the phase anyway.

Tbh I’m more concerned about the whole “we don’t get flips” thing.
VCA is pretty much redundant, we could probably analyse voting patterns but we can’t do post flip associations.
We have to be on point with reads and lynch with guts of steel.
If we go on a chain lynch rampage using nothing but preflip associations, we could either be on a roll and get all the scum almost instantly, or it could completely backfire and result in a series of mislynches.
by Jezz92
Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:14 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Back and stuffed full of Christmas
A little out of it but let’s see what we can do
Btw I’m not quoting posts when I have to catch up hours later most of the posts I’m reading happened, will only quote if I’m interacting with people in real time, or if I wanna only address a few things, or something I think will be too hard to describe without quoting it.

Otherwise you get this:

Spoiler: Phone reacted to royee’s very typical FM meme as if it were serious which is interesting.

Wabbit wouldn’t make the kind of entrance he did as scum I don’t think.

I don’t get royees transition from asking Wabbit why he’s accusing a zero poster to accusing a zero poster himself. “Why eragon?” I could say “why jaland?” to you as well mate.

Chemist forgetting jaland is in the playerlist means he’s not scum buddies with jaland probably.

@Royee why are you worried about “wasting posts”, you probably wouldn’t reach 35 in 48 hours in a regular game js, yet here you’re being more active than early last game yet also concerned about post count so ??

Ejj suggesting a trial on every player is probably townie?? Fakeable, yes but showing comfort in having a trial on every player including yourself (which from a scum POV also includes both your buddies) is something I don’t see very likely coming from scum. Weak read though.

Chemist, why do you need approval before accusing royee, it seems like you wanna push it so why the caution?

Also don’t hypo claim medium, that’s just stupid and pointless since there’s no flips so we wouldn’t know.
And for that matter, no pr gambits as cit either cos if you die we’d have no way of knowing whether it was real or fake and scum could potentially take advantage of that since they do learn the roles of their night kills while their head is alive.

Joltiks entrance is kinda useless ngl, also another person concerned about post limits who prob doesn’t need to be honestly. Also don’t like how he’s implying he’ll wait for other people to do stuff with the whole “we should save our posts in case something important happens”. Being predominately reactionary isn’t necessarily AI, but I’m gonna keep my eye on future posts from him.

I like that hyena immediately jumps into sorting people in his first post, pretty analytical which is good especially early game (but you don’t get extra towncred for posting the same thing twice lol).

Eragon doesn’t feel as townie as last game at first glance but not scummy either rn. The mock trial is an interesting idea though, only concern I’d have with that is after today we’re gonna have 48 hour days which may not be long enough to do a fake trial, see what happens with that, and then decide on a real one if we decide the fake one isn’t right.

Multi accusing himself is?? I literally don’t know how to read that rn. Interesting that optimistic reacted immediately to it , probably means they couldn’t be scum buddies. On that note preflip associations aren’t necessarily gonna be useful so I’ll avoid doing it too much. I feel like it’s good to note some of the stronger vibes though. Scum can distance and make it look natural by planning it, but I doubt it so early.

Non’s first post: if it’s serious then he’s basically implied that he scum reads more people than there are scum, which is probably more townie than scummy but only if he gives reasoning. If it wasn’t serious than it’s a little weird but NAI imo.

Jaland enters with the “bad town or scum” read, anyone who played 16E with me knows how I feel about those kind of posts lmao.

Agree with hyenas stance on non, but again only if the post was serious and he can have actual reasoning. By itself it’s a baseless post that does not progress the game, other than getting maybe a few reactions. If it was just a “Oh look I’m voting guilty on all these people just so you think I’m town with too many scum reads” without any intent to progress or elaborate then no it’s not townie.

@Eragon, how is hyena throwing shade onto jaland? It’s only shade if you believe hyena is deliberately pinning jalands post onto him and making it personal, rather than making an innocent interpretation.

Jaland saying that this is only trial you’ll get from him today probably more likely coming from town, especially the part about waiting for tomorrow to push him up again.

Joltik attempted to make some sort of stance on others, which is an improvement on his first post but need to see more.
by Jezz92
Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:07 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

Re: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Day 1

Hi, it’s already Christmas morning in my country so I’m not playing rn
brb in 8-12 hours byeee
by Jezz92
Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:02 pm
 
Forum: Game Threads
Topic: VFM40 | Salem Witch Trials II | Mafia Win
Replies: 806
Views: 146501

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