Coward (Town Support [Town Tactical])

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What do you think about this role?

It's great and I think it should be tested
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It's okay, some stuff should be changed (reply)
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It's bad (reply)
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Total votes : 48

Coward (Town Support [Town Tactical])

Postby GoogleFeud » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:34 am

!!!THANKS PARALLAX FOR THE WHOLE CHARGE SYSTEM!!! !!!THANKS MYSTOC FOR THE ROLE NAME!!


ABOUT THE ROLE
Coward (Town Support)
Summary: You are a scared townie who hides behind other people in order to survive.
Spoiler: Abilities: Every night hide behind a player.

Attributes:
- If you get attacked, the player you hid behind will be attacked instead.
- You start with 1 charge and gain 1 more every night you don't use your ability. You lose 1 charge when you use your ability, even if you weren't attacked.


Special abilities:
Attack: None
Defense: None (technically basic when hiding behind someone.)
Unique

TI results:
Investigator: Your target sticks to the shadows, they must be a Lookout/Forger/Coward or Witch.
Sheriff: Your target is not suspicious.
Consig/Witch/CL/PM: Your target is a scared townie, they must be a Coward!
TG Invest result: Your target shadows people inquisitively. They could be a Tracker, Coward, Nightmarer, Shadowalker or Lost Spirit.
TG interviewer result: E. Coward, Veteran, Disguiser, Warlock, Undertaker

Wins with: Town, survivor, guardian angel (if won), pirate (if won), jester (if won), Exe (if won).
Goal: Lynch every criminal and evildoer.



MECHANICS & INTERACTIONS:

- If a WW attacks the coward, then both the coward and their target die.
- If you hide behind the WW when they attack you, the WW stays at home and attacks you and all other visitors.
- Even when you hide behind someone, the arsonist will still douse you, not your target.
- If you hide behind the arso and they douse you the arso will ignite all his targets.
- If a SK/mafia/Vig/PM/CL/Poisoner/HM/Necro attack the coward, then the coward's target dies.
- If 2 or more attackers with basic attack attack the coward, then all of them kill the coward's target.
- In a 1v1 scenario, town only wins when the other player is a mafioso. (just like transporter)
- The coward can't save himself from the jester's kill.
- All his messages are silent, for example if mafia tries to kill the coward, the coward's target does not get a message that they were the coward's shield.
- CL with the necronomicon can basically kill whoever they want if they control the coward.
- If witch/CL control the coward onto himself, the coward will stay at home - he can't hide behind himself.
- If the coward visits the medusa, only the coward will die - that's because the medusa doesn't visit the coward: the coward visits the medusa.
- If TP is protecting the coward's target and for example the SK attacks the coward, the TP will successfully protect the coward's target and they won't die.


ACHIEVEMENTS:

Achievements:

Too Scared To Die - Win 1 game as a Coward.
Unkillable! -Win 5 games as a Coward.
Meat Shield - Win 10 games as a Coward.
Untouchable - Win 25 games as a Coward.
I think he can still see you... - hide behind an Arsonist.
I guess they haven't learned their lesson... - get attacked by the mafia 3 times in a game.
Scapegoat! - Hide behind a survivor.

!FEBRUARY 2018 EDITS!:
- Changed it's alignment.
- Instead of having unlimited uses, it now has a charge system. (Read mechanics and interactions).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's hard to get rid of him :D, you can easily fake-claim this role, which is good. Please give feedback! :D :D :D
Last edited by GoogleFeud on Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:31 am, edited 30 times in total.
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Re: Insomniac (Town Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:40 am

so its a worse veteran offense wise since too kill the attacker you have to hide behind them

its also basically just a one way transporter

so if you woulda died the other person you hid behind dies instead no matter what so unstoppable attack?

but basically unkillable defensive wise with only counter of being WW

this is an interesting role

-its a weird weaker vet thats basically immortal but it can end up saving itself and killing a town

-this role name doesn't really match someone who doesn't sleep doesn't really match this roles ability
-maybe call it the coward since it lets other die for him and hides behind them

not sure if town needs a one way transporter but with only kills
none the less its interesting role whether needed or not
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Re: Insomniac (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:10 pm

Mystoc wrote:so its a worse veteran offense wise since too kill the attacker you have to hide behind them In a way, yes.

its also basically just a one way transporter Yeah, but the whole purpose is different. This role's purpose is to kill the attacker (or someone else who's evil), while the transporter's purpose is to protect from roleblockers, witches, transporter has way more purposes, which are not needed here.

so if you woulda died the other person you hid behind dies instead no matter what so unstoppable attack? Well yeah, but not to pesti, pesti is the same as ww but with an unstoppable attack.

but basically unkillable defensive wise with only counter of being WW Yup.

this is an interesting role

-its a weird weaker vet thats basically immortal but it can end up saving itself and killing a town Yeah, this role is not meant to be played by idiots, actually every role is meant to be played by experienced and good players, not trolls or idiots, it can hurt town a lot, but it can kill a few mafs as well.

-this role name doesn't really match someone who doesn't sleep doesn't really match this roles ability
-maybe call it the coward since it lets other die for him and hides behind them Exactly, Insomniac doesn't really fit, I'm gonna think about coward tho, it's not a bad name.

not sure if town needs a one way transporter but with only kills
none the less its interesting role whether needed or not Yup. Thanks!
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Re: Insomniac (Town Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:24 pm

so what if you hide behind WW and they attack you?


they still kill you right so does that mean they die also even though u didn't successfully hide behind them


this role is actually pretty good it cant role prove itself since it doesn't do the kill it deflects the kill so its unlike vet

so evils will claim to be this role readily

it will have same play style as vet where you you are very aggressive and lead town

i think it having unlimited alerts is fine since its just deflects kills onto another not stops them

i like it i think its sorta a mix of town killing and town support

it can act like a mayor since it doesn't fear death and it can kill but not unless attacked and it wont always kill the attacker

good role the more i look at it change the name though :p
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Re: Insomniac (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:31 pm

Good question. Well, when a werewolf attacks a transporter who transed himself with the WW, only the transporter dies, so I am guessing that only the Insomniac would die.

And yeah, I am changing it to coward, not the best, but butter than Insomniac.
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Re: Insomniac (Town Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:36 pm

GoogleFeud wrote:Good question. Well, when a werewolf attacks a transporter who transed himself with the WW, only the transporter dies, so I am guessing that only the Insomniac would die.

And yeah, I am changing it to coward, not the best, but butter than Insomniac.


it can be filler name any name that describes someone who is selfish and sacrifices others to save themselves works too

i do think its what this role is though they hide behind others and let them die rather then face the danger themselves coward fits perfectly
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:09 pm

I like it.
/support
It's not OP. But not UP either. It can be either very good or very harmful.

-Nerfed Veteran but unique in it's own way

So the most valuable play style for someone like this would be to be as active as possible during day, getting roles, and compiling a VFR list. Or simply counting roles themselves.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby Seththeking » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:45 pm

Hmm, To Me It Will Just Hurt Town and to me it would be awesome if my ghoul role and this role as a NB was in the game


make it a NB and /Support

As Town It Hurts Them
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:24 pm

Seththeking wrote:Hmm, To Me It Will Just Hurt Town and to me it would be awesome if my ghoul role and this role as a NB was in the game


make it a NB and /Support

As Town It Hurts Them


Veteran hurts town all the same. It works in the Town Killing since of way, and lore since of way.
Cause you always knew the coward would shoot you in the foot so he can escape the horde of zombies.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:18 pm

only overpowered thing i see possible with this role

is the coward and vigilante working together to deal unstoppable attacks to GF or NK

Coward chooses GF and vig shoots coward and you deal unstoppable attack to anyone you want

given this requires two TK to be in the game and them to knew who each other are and for the coward too suspect who the Nk or GF so its not easy to do but it is an possible combo this is strong

perhaps this role can only hide from none town attacks?

it might not be needed, although the combo is strong it is very hard to pull off
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:43 pm

Mystoc wrote:only overpowered thing i see possible with this role

is the coward and vigilante working together to deal unstoppable attacks to GF or NK

Coward chooses GF and vig shoots coward and you deal unstoppable attack to anyone you want

given this requires two TK to be in the game and them to knew who each other are and for the coward too suspect who the Nk or GF so its not easy to do but it is an possible combo this is strong

perhaps this role can only hide from none town attacks?

it might not be needed, although the combo is strong it is very hard to pull off

That would be a rare combo, I don't think that nerf to the Coward is needed. Anyways if it did happen it would just be like having a game with 3 mediums that auto confirmed each other.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:14 am

Actually the attack depends on the attacker, if it's mafia, it's basic, vigi - basic, and yeah, coward + vigi is a good combo if you want to kill mafia without them attacking you.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby polypies73 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:43 am

All in all, this is not too bad. And we definitely need some more tk roles.
In general, the mechanics are pretty good but obv some thigns wil have to be reifned and thigns will need to be tested.
Will this be out on the testing grounds?
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:17 am

Thanks, and yeah, I will submit it to the testing grounds, but it may not get accepted, depends, if people like it and vote on it - then it most likely will.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby polypies73 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:05 am

Also, since the arso technically doesn’t attack the target he douses, he should still douse the original hider rather than whoever he hides behind. This is so arso actaully has a chnace to kill the hider whihc will probably become a threat in teh alter game.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:00 am

polypies73 wrote:Also, since the arso technically doesn’t attack the target he douses, he should still douse the original hider rather than whoever he hides behind. This is so arso actaully has a chnace to kill the hider whihc will probably become a threat in teh alter game.


Actually why don't we make it where if the arso targets the coward it will does both the Cowards target and the Coward himself?
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:54 am

True, that would be a huge arso buff in my opinion (cause there are only 2 TK in game, so it's not a small chance to get a coward in your game), arso would get 2 more kills which I think is not a good idea.

I am going to think of another arso interaction.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:36 am

Added more arso/WW interactions and made a poll!
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby ImposterK » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:59 pm

You should change it so it has a punishment if it kills a townie (maybe 2?) because it should not be able to consistently get townies killed. The Coward will be more cautious of who they hide behind with this change.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:04 pm

ImposterK wrote:You should change it so it has a punishment if it kills a townie (maybe 2?) because it should not be able to consistently get townies killed. The Coward will be more cautious of who they hide behind with this change.


How about making it where if the Coward gets 2 town killed he commits suicide like the vigilante? He was able to run away from the first town death, but not the second.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby GoogleFeud » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:21 pm

It's either:

1) If they "kill" a townie, they won't be able to hide the next night.

2) Keep it as it is. I think this role already does have a big drawback if you "kill" more important roles than yours - for example BG, jailor, ret etc. In my mind, the coward should not hide every single night - cause they have the potential to ruin the whole game for town, kill the unrevealed mayor on accident, for example.

And, TG I don't think that would be the good idea, since a lot of players don't like that mechanic.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby polypies73 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:40 pm

If you hide behing the ww and they attack you, the ww should stay at home and attack you and all visitors to his house.
Forum Mafia/TG:

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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby TrueGuardian32 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:57 pm

polypies73 wrote:If you hide behing the ww and they attack you, the ww should stay at home and attack you and all visitors to his house.

Actually that sounds good. The Lore behind it could actually make since too

Scared of being attacked, the coward runs... He walks straight into the wolf den of Deodat Lawson's house. The next day two people were found dead.
Two slips of paper were found.
John Willard
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Spoiler: John Willard The Coward
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Spoiler: TrueGuardian32 The Sheriff
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________________

polypies that is a good idea, but it can screw up WW sometimes. Maybe if the WW Overhaul is put into play it will be better for WW.
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby Mystoc » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:03 pm

yes this role is very good but i do agree that it should have penalty for getting town killed

i don't think it should be suicide or loss of ability though

maybe cant use ability next day is good penalty like the google said but i would make it two nights not one you shouldn't want to randomly kill people so the penalty needs to be fair if you kill a town
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Re: Coward (Town Killing)

Postby Gooose26 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:17 am

So it can't kill a Serial Killer or Godfather, which is fine until we compare this to Veteran. Essentially, this is a Veteran that has a bit more control on who he gets killed instead of killing as much. Veteran kills anybody who visits him, meaning that he has a mental night immunity, knowing that evils won't want to visit him. It isn't perfect, but it still scares off most scum. However, this role doesn't have the reassurance that if a scum visits them they are likely to die. This is because you single out just 1 player each night, meaning you will have to find a mafia member for scum to lose when killing you, unlikely considering you have no investigative values. Even though this can visit each night compared to the Veteran, I think the utility that the Veteran has outweighs the consistency of the Coward.
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