Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign) [REWORKED]

Old Role Ideas

How would you rate this role? (Please post too, Revoting is allowed)

It should be in the game!
22
54%
It's good!
9
22%
It's regular.
6
15%
It's bad.
3
7%
Booo get this thing out of here!
1
2%
 
Total votes : 41

Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby dota2reporter » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:32 am

neutral benign that doesnt win with maf
buffs town
26-18 ToSFM
34-26 MU
0-3 MS

60-47
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Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby NDM » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:05 pm

Dude I like it and also Amnesiac does not always win with Mafia
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Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Bloodringe » Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:14 pm

:|
NDM wrote:Dude I like it and also Amnesiac does not always win with Mafia


Yeah, but it can. This role actually cannot.

Which isn't really benign, which by definition can win with essentially anyone.

As for the role itself, it can roleblock, and actually investigate by simply not being allowed to be mastered by mafia this role will find mafia. And it helps town, its very town centric but labeled as neutral. Thats my biggest issue.
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Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Blackajack » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:50 am

Residays wrote:What about making him able to win with mafia, However, If your owner is attacked or healed you meet the same fate?


Sounds better.
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Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Totes » Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:27 pm

Other than the name, it's okay.
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Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Arpitr20 » Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:10 pm

I like it.
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Re: Werecat: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Totes » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:05 pm

Residays wrote:So apparently this role is being ignored by most users because I have to either have a shitload of posts or post a terrible idea

It's being ignored because of the name. Everyone just thinks it's a role idea because of the Markiplier reference. If you want more recognition, I suggest you change the name. To what, I'm not sure, but it needs to be changed.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Totes » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:16 pm

Yes this is so much better.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Arpitr20 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:32 am

i like the idea, and I think it would be great, except if your owner is jailed, will you also be jailed. If your owner is doused/killed, and you are healed, will you not be doused killed. If yes, will you be allowed to find a new master?
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Technetium » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:52 am

Seems like a neat idea. And it's a kitty! /support
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby darkabsol » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:28 pm

This actually needs to be a thing /support
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby Deldris » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:23 pm

I usually hate NB ideas, but I can actually imagine yours being in the game.

/support
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby GifttheGiver » Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:25 pm

/support
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby RetralMega » Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:43 am

So a Bodyguard-Escort with only one possible target? Sounds pretty overpowered and underpowered at the same time with no inbetween. No support from me.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby simabean » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:33 pm

I like this idea. A new, interesting kind of Neutral Benign. Protection from owner, you winning, win-win for the owner and the owned. It's cool it can side with anyone as well.

/support
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sun May 01, 2016 2:34 pm

If he dies roleblocking an attacker, he should win with the owner?

Also, if jester wins, can he get forcehaunted and win too?

What if the Executioner wins while taking care of the shelterseeker? Gotta give him a reason to help. Make him win too?
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby BPsycho2 » Sun May 01, 2016 5:16 pm

I'd like that.

Would you also consider 3 role blocks with one automatic block, or is that too much?
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby BPsycho2 » Mon May 02, 2016 6:39 pm

I meant to say this

Three blocks, or one Auto block
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby SpellChecker » Sun May 08, 2016 10:13 pm

I support this role idea, seems good to me.
  
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby PurpleSidewalk1 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:06 pm

I read through this whole thread to get the gist of the feedback and for the most part it is good feedback, with the odd suggestion thrown in, I was a little disappointed that no one pointed a few things out that seem quite obviously off with the role. I have come to point these things out.

Residays wrote:Abilities: -Visit someone every night and convince them of being your owner.

Convince them? There is literally no reason why a single person would ever refuse the aid of the NB on Night 1. Anyone who doesn't immediately accept the "request" to have a NB on their side with all the advantages that the role gives the owner added to the fact that it is also a number to have vote with you.

Residays wrote:-Before being owned your name is anonymous, you can only talk with your owner.

This implies that afterwards you will be able to see the Shelterseekers name and also that you will have a night chat with your owner. First of all, it doesn't matter if it says "Shelterseeker" or the player's name because no one isn't going to refuse the help of the NB and will eventually either be told the name of the Shelterseeker or just see it. Second of all there is Mafia chat, Jailor chat, and Medium chat; if the Shelterseeker visits the Jailor or Medium those two roles would have to talk to both Shelterseeker and dead/jailed at the same time which is not good at all because it would be extremely obvious that the person the SS was visiting is a Jailor/Medium.

Residays wrote:-If your owner dies, You will need to find another owner.
-If your owner is attacked or healed, You will meet the same fate and vice-versa.

So you are saying that if the Shelterseeker's owner is killed at night they will die as well, but if they are lynched you can find another owner? This is sort of what I am taking from that statement. And are you also saying that if the Shelterseeker is killed that the owner dies? That is somewhat of a small disadvantage to accepting ownership of the role I guess, but still not enough to justify ever declining the ownership request. I personally think that if either role, owner or SS, dies at any point (lynching, attacked, executed, or haunted) that the other one should die as well. If you are going to apply a mechanic you need to apply it all the way or just clarify it a bit more.

Residays wrote:-You can choose to roleblock everyone who visits your owner and you a maximum of 3 times, knowing how many targets you roleblocked.

Easily confirmable, shifts game dramatically based on choices, already fairly OP, and now this. Why is this a thing? It is incredibly overpowered with this aspect. I just want to know why this is part of the role at all, is there any real reason why the role needed this ability? I can understand some form of protection for it's owner, but 3 roleblocks that will hit everyone who visits your owner that is too much.

Okay now onto the premise of the role in general: it is confirmable immediately, it can't choose it's side (as NB should be able to) the side is chosen for them because they don't know what the role of their owner is until they have already been owned, and it is super OP for the owner. This role buffs any role, who it is owned by, out of this fucking world. If it happened to side with the Mafia then it is very likely Mafia will win, same for Town. Even Jesters would be ridiculously buffed by this role.

Suggestions for fixing the role:
I know I bashed it a lot, and I didn't even mention how similar it is to some past roles, but I want to help you fix it. I don't just want to tell you it sucks, thus discouraging you from expanding and balancing the role. So first things first, make it a NB. The owner shouldn't choose to take the SS it should be the SS's choice to take the owner as an ally. I'm not sure how this would work. However I have to imagine it would entail a night discussion where the candidate for owner presents his role/alignment, and presents his case for why he should be the owner. We need to flesh out any inconsistencies so I would suggest making it so that there is something preventing the SS from being owned by a Jailor or Medium to avoid the mixing of chats. Mafia chat is an exception since the people who can see the Mafia member speaking are most likely his allies, although there is the Spy.
Another thing to do is make it not so OP and remove the roleblocking ability to replace it with some form of protection like a heal for both the owner and SS on one night only. You can fiddle with this and change it around see how it fits with the balance of the rest of the role of course.
I think the name should be changed to Dog or Pet because that's literally what it is, and we don't want to encourage "owning a person". That would be bad.
Obviously add in specifics about the way in which the SS and owner are tied together with the whole dying thing. Make sure you specify the different types of deaths and what would result from each. Furthermore change the goal to something like "Live to see your owner win." If you and your owner die but the owner's alignment still wins then you shouldn't win. You shouldn't become an honorary member of their alignment. Your goal should be to ensure you are alive at the end and that you and your owner protected each other.
Remove the "If your owner dies you get to choose a new owner" if you happen to keep it so that the owner and SS don't just die together then you shouldn't have the SS get another chance. Your owner died, you failed. That's it. The only other option would be to have the SS win with the owner's alignment if it is alive at the end.

TL;DR
No one would refuse the SS. No reason to be anon. Jailor/Medium/Mafia chats would interfere. Confusion about tied deaths. If owner dies SS should die and vise-versa. RB bullshit is so OP. Easily confirmable NB. SS doesn't get to choose it's alignment as NB. OP as fuck. Read the suggestions at least.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby cmitc1 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:18 am

TamronUr wrote:no
no benign roles
and especially not a role that just visits and aids random people
get out of here


these are the kind of posts that should be removed :|



anyway, I would bring down the ability to rb anyone that visits its target to 1, and make it to where it can not have a town power as a owner, so its less town sided.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby PurpleSidewalk1 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:53 pm

TamronUr wrote:
cmitc1 wrote:
TamronUr wrote:no
no benign roles
and especially not a role that just visits and aids random people
get out of here


these are the kind of posts that should be removed :|



anyway, I would bring down the ability to rb anyone that visits its target to 1, and make it to where it can not have a town power as a owner, so its less town sided.

Why is that?
Is it because i dont paste a fucking ''/support'' with no context?
Is it because i criticize the overflow of dumb and retarded benign roles that are copied and pasted?
Please enlighten me cmitc.

Constructive criticism should describe every single post on a role idea thread. You are correct the people who write "/support" don't touch either constructive or criticism, but you don't have anything constructive meaning you are just as bad as they are. Criticism without suggestion proves that you can't do any better. Negativity is toxic to the community, but a negative and a positive make a neutral so you need to give something back.

To be completely honest I would rather we all write paragraph form and actually have a discussion, however, I understand the concept of easing into a transition rather than jumping head first.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby PurpleSidewalk1 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:28 pm

Residays wrote:Role nerfed.

I only see two changes:
Residays wrote:knowing how many targets you roleblocked.

Buff?
Residays wrote:-If your owner dies, You will comit suicide.

Clarification. Barely a nerf it should have been in the role to begin with.

Did you even read what I said? Did I spend over 10 minutes writing up that post for you to ignore it?

And stop posting two word or one sentence posts! Your post count is sacred and should not be increased for the sake of such posts. Don't bother posting again you should go back and edit your post to respond since that was hardly a post. Honestly you could at least tell us what you did to nerf it and why.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby PurpleSidewalk1 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:00 pm

Question: what reason would anyone have to ever refuse being the owner of the SS?

If there is no downside to having the SS as your ally then just have the SS chose their owner N1.
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Re: Shelterseeker: Neutral (Benign)

Postby alex1234321 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 3:09 pm

The only problem that I can see is that it is a confirmable Neutral Benign. I think that if this is added, a rehash of it should also be added whose goal is to have its owner lose. (Kind of like the FM Phantom and Shade)
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