Lawyer Change

[Metrion]

The Lawyer is not balanced.

1. The person being lynched is usually not being lynched for no reason, consensus are made typically using the entire 5 days now. Lawyers aren't going to be stopping a town from imploding from terrible mislynches.

2. Voting is anonymous, ergo scum will always vote not guilty on fellow scum and guilty on townies. This makes the wrong decision a lot bigger of a possibility.

3. Lawyer is completely uninformed without revealing, meaning the Lawyer will most likely have to defend or prosecute via reads exclusively. Why did the Lawyer player not bring this up before, why bother with a trial to only confirm a Townies point of view? Seems underwhelming for a defense.

4. Force guilty is useless without the swap, this is also the Lawyers only late game power and it can be bypassed via no lynch.



Spoiler:

Lawyer 1

(This role is still in the experimental stages ~ It will not yet appear in Episodes for the time being.)

You are a Lawyer

Your alignment is Town Power

Celebrated around the county as a true defender of justice, you were widely known for your ability to see fair verdicts to the end.
It is now time you realize that your power is exactly what the town needs to see the right people punished.

During the day you may select a player, that night the player then can optionally write a 1000 character affidavit which will be sent to you. You may hold on to the affidavit yourself or submit it to the town and it will be posted completely anonymously.
You may also pm your moderator during the day to start a trial, when a majority is reached on a player it will be announced that you have entered the gallows and a trial has begun.
During a trial you can communicate with the town anonymously via two 1000 character limit messages for your opening/closing arguments.
Within 24 hours, the players must send a vote of /Guilty or /Not Guilty to the Game Moderator.
Your vote counts as three in trials.
At the end of the Trial, regardless of the verdict, the Day Phase will end.
During your trials, you may also swap defendants, or force a verdict. You may only do each of these once and they can be used together.
You may do this only three times. You can also perform this power on yourself.
The only exception is the lynch of a Jester, this will cause your trial to fail, swapping defendants to a Jester will force them to haunt the Lawyer the next night.
Players may not whisper during trials.

You win with the Town
You win with Survivors
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill Arsonists
You must kill Witches
You must kill Serial Killers
You must kill Stalkers
You must kill Bombers
You may spare anyone else.

Lawyer 2

(This role is still in the experimental stages ~ It will not yet appear in Episodes for the time being.)

You are a Lawyer

Your alignment is Town Power

Celebrated around the county as a true defender of justice, you were widely known for your ability to see fair verdicts to the end.
It is now time you realize that your power is exactly what the town needs to see the right people punished.

During the day you may select a player, that night the player then can optionally write a 1000 character affidavit which will be sent to you. You may hold on to the affidavit yourself or submit it to the town and it will be posted completely anonymously.
You may also pm your moderator during the day to start a trial with the name of a player, it will be announced that you have entered the gallows and a trial has begun with that player being judged.
During a trial you can communicate with the town anonymously via two 1000 character limit messages for your opening/closing arguments.
Within 24 hours, the players must send a vote of /Guilty or /Not Guilty to the Game Moderator.
At the end of the Trial, the day will either go on if the defendant is voted Not Guilty, or will end in their lynch if they were voted Guilty.
During your trials, you may also swap defendants, or try and force a verdict by gaininh 2 votes. You may only do each of these once and they can be used together.
You may do this only three times. You can also perform this power on yourself.
The only exception is the trial of a Jester or swapping to a Jester which will immediately end the trial with their lynch and force them to haunt you.
Players may not whisper during trials or after.

You win with the Town
You win with Survivors
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill Arsonists
You must kill Witches
You must kill Serial Killers
You must kill Stalkers
You must kill Bombers
You may spare anyone else.

Lawyer 3

(This role is still in the experimental stages ~ It will not yet appear in Episodes for the time being.)

You are a Lawyer

Your alignment is Town Power

Celebrated around the county as a true defender of justice, you were widely known for your ability to see fair verdicts to the end.
It is now time you realize that your power is exactly what the town needs to see the right people punished.

You may pm your moderator during the day to start a trial with the name of a players, when a majority is reached on another player it will be announced that you have entered the gallows and a trial has begun with both those players being judged.
During a trial you can communicate with the town anonymously via two 1000 character limit messages for your opening/closing arguments.
During the trial the two players involved may also privately send a 1000 character defense to the Lawyer.
Within 24 hours, the players must send a vote of /Guilty Playername or /Not Guilty to the Game Moderator.
At the end of the Trial, regardless of the vedict, the day will end. If the votes are a threeway tie, no one is lynched, however all other ties will he settled by your vote.
During your trials, you may also swap defendants, or try and force a verdict by gaining two votes. You may only do each of these once and they can be used together.
You may do this only three times. You can also perform this power on yourself.
The only exception is the trial of a Jester or swapping to a Jester which will immediately end the trial with their lynch and force them to haunt you.
Players may not whisper during trials.

You win with the Town
You win with Survivors
You must kill the Mafia
You must kill Arsonists
You must kill Witches
You must kill Serial Killers
You must kill Stalkers
You must kill Bombers
You may spare anyone else.

These are only suggestions. What do you think about the Lawyer? What do you think should be changed?

[Santa07]

I like the second one, but I think if a trial ends with a not guilty verdict the town gets an extra 24 hours to lynch someone else (the normal way). Being able to essentially decide who's lynched is really OP.

[iggyvolz]

I still am iffy on anonymous voting for all... maybe mafia members can't vote?

[MarcoTheRed]

Doesn't this become a boosted mayor, then?

[Metrion]

Lawyer 2 basically is a boosted Mayor and would need their vote count nerfed and a change to the force verdict. I'll make some changes and add Lawyer 3.

[VonAntarctic]

I think the sole reason why Lawyer isn't balanced is, because of the Meta that favors heavily reading towards late game judgement by using Investigatives.

Lawyer isn't simply going to be useful in the current meta of reads-early because the current playstyle has shifted into most of the roles staying under-cover/creating private networks until it is late-game where they drop thier hints and grab scum one-by one. Early on it however promotes early reading, wich is where Lawyer should excel at a first glance, he should have enough material to summon a proper defence/prosecution. It doesn't matter if people's votes are anonymous when it comes to other people, only Lawyer himself will care but the important thing is Lawyer should act as an early game enforcement that should be super-strong on paper, since it has the ability to force participation from everyone, something that could've been regarded as the strongest.

The fact that Lawyer is most powerful early-on where most of the roles can enable a network, much more like the Mayor = so the core of the problem isn't the power of Lawyer, it's the fact that he is most of the times overshadowed by other Town Power roles, not being able to do much from apart making the day-time longer and forcing a verdict on a player that is most of the time decided on the same day.

The main problem wich someone should be discussing here is how it compares well in regards to other Town Power roles, and there you will realize it's abilities are quite limited and have lesser impact than all others have altogether, with Trials being mostly used just to make the day longer so town can make up a plan, most usually resulting in a verdict that would have been cast anyway. With the current meta also having lynch results around the fifth day, one realizes that Mayor's 3 votes and the fact that confirming yourself is extremely easy makes it inferior to Lawyer.

Lawyer in the current meta is a weaker Mayor that won't make such a difference. Current meta favors heavy reading, and applies last minute lynching, something that mayor might be good at but other Town Power's are certainly better at - Jailor gains information, Retributionist gains information, Mayor generates voting power - Lawyer does nothing but force an already-set in verdict, unless an Investigative would be willing to show up, but thanks to Stalker it's a suicide.

[Metrion]

I wouldn't say that the meta of the game is the sole reason that the Lawyer is inferior, it plays a very large part I agree and runs counter to it's original design. But I think factors such as some of it's useless abilities and counter intuitive mechanics are to blame.

I'm a little confused as I think you mixed up some words, but to summerize what I got "Lawyer is weak because of the meta it clashes with to defy. The Lawyer in theory should be very powerful at the begining, however it is also the weakest out of the Town Powers and that's what should be looked at first and foremost.

Yes, this is why I think the affidavit system is a real boon to this role, allowing it to be a Jailor/Mayor hybrid in theory. It cannot have all the night abilities of a Jailor, but is the most effective communication wise and can be successful in getting incognito informatiom direct to the town. Meanwhile it has power to sway lynches, but isn't directly as power as Mayor when going at extreme odds with scum, however it trades that for being a much harder target.

I'd really like more opinions on this idea in it's self.

[TheCow]

So, people complain that the Lawyer is either too good, or not good enough; that it is too much like the Mayyor, and cuts into it's niche. Well, Met's changes are all fine and dandy, but I have one of my own. Instead of having a Lawyer, why not have a Lawyerbear?

Spoiler: Lawyerbear

You are the Lawyerbear.

Your alignment is Town Power.

For years, you suffered discrimination at the hands of humans: they said that it was impossible, that you could not become a lawyer. You decided to prove them wrong, and become a Lawyer. Ultimately, you became the ultimate lawyer, and protect the weak by eating the prosecution!

At any time during the day, you may say "Rawr! We're going into a trial!" A trial will immediately start on whoever currently has the most votes. At any time during the trial, you may eat the prosecution, ending the trial under "mysterious circumstances".
If you choose to eat a player, you must hibernate the next day, to keep your slim figure.

Your goal is to "Eat all evildoers".

[spretznaz]

So, people complain that the Lawyer is either too good, or not good enough; that it is too much like the Mayyor, and cuts into it's niche. Well, Met's changes are all fine and dandy, but I have one of my own. Instead of having a Lawyer, why not have a Lawyerbear?

Spoiler: Lawyerbear

You are the Lawyerbear.

Your alignment is Town Power.

For years, you suffered discrimination at the hands of humans: they said that it was impossible, that you could not become a lawyer. You decided to prove them wrong, and become a Lawyer. Ultimately, you became the ultimate lawyer, and protect the weak by eating the prosecution!

At any time during the day, you may say "Rawr! We're going into a trial!" A trial will immediately start on whoever currently has the most votes. At any time during the trial, you may eat the prosecution, ending the trial under "mysterious circumstances".
If you choose to eat a player, you must hibernate the next day, to keep your slim figure.

Your goal is to "Eat all evildoers".

To Met: Lawyer 2 seems kind of overpowered, even for town. I would like to see either 1 or 3, however.

[Santa07]

This is just flavor text, but perhaps change /Not Guilty to /Innocent?

But then it's not a lawyer...

[LeScraf]

This is just flavor text, but perhaps change /Not Guilty to /Innocent?

You do realize in a court of law the verdicts are "Guilty" and "Not Guilty", right?