Town of Salem Game Forums

AtEPrincess wrote:PROTECT US FOR A FREE WIN~

AtEPrincess wrote:A better question to ask: How is asking those questions helpful in the slightest? How other hydra interact within themselves should be none of your business.

AtEPrincess wrote:

Metrion wrote:You probably shouldn't use a pronoun when attempting to clear things up. I'm not sure who this is addressed at mainly because of the last part?

It was directed at you. You were the only one asking questions, after all.

What we are trying to convey is that what iEsdeath did is not alignment indicative. What he asked is a useless question, but that does not mean he is scum. You seemed to insinuate a disfavourable view on iEsdeath because of this, which is why we brought it up in the first place.

Trying to encourage discussion so early in the game is never truly scummy. It may be used as supporting evidence for a later scumread, but it should not be the basis of a scumread.

Your questions are not very impressive either. I see little point in asking others what they think of the solo hydras. They are the same as the others. Downie has had a total of three posts that would yield nothing but strawgrasping impressions if somebody truly tried, and the last question is an even broader version of the question iEsdeath asked.

AtEPrincess wrote:

ShortcutButton wrote:RVS/AtE: do you guys actually think Met/Cow is scummy? Because this post just feels... abrasive. Yeah, that's the word. You say "fine" to agree with Met's point without really submitting yourself, and I see light pushes but nothing too evident.

Not at the moment. Earlier, they were a scumlean due to Metrion's seemingly nonsensical arguments, but I realised we were simply misunderstanding them.

AtEPrincess wrote:I do not believe Downie has done anything scummy at all and fail to see the "over emotive response" Cow mentioned. The sort of reaction Downie displayed seems to be quite common in this meta and looks difficult to defend against, but if he has an explanation, I am interesting to hear it.

AtEPrincess wrote:I don't believe Milte actually knows what a scumslip is (nor do I believe what they pointed out was indicative in the slightest), but I fail to see why others are so confused on their logic. Town will not know which other players are town. I believe the suspicion was gathered from the overconfidence K1ll expressed, which has already been pointed out by CJ and explained by K1ll herself. People will have differing opinions on what is scummy. Getting onto them for this is counterproductive.

I'm more concerned about Metrion's post here:

Metrion wrote:I just went through iEsdeath's 8C D1 (they were Mafia) and in that game they had a few posts saying how useful D1 can be, one post pointing out a possible scum slip on a townie because they were unfamiliar with mechanics and other than that nothing but saying massclaim d1 is bad and fluff. Seems somewhat inline I guess with their current showing but their really isn't enough to make me feel comfortable with it.

Is this not confirmation bias? Why did he not look through iEsdeath's town games to see if this behaviour was simply a nulltell?

I would also like clarification on this:

Metrion wrote:That being said, what do you think differentiates scum!downie and town!downie? I'd rather not have 7C all over again (I recommend that everyone take a glance at that game tbh) and that's why I didn't really share TheCow's views because Downie was super emotional and that's just him. Which was the case TheCow was pitching me.

If you did not share Cow's views on Downie, why were you trying to push it earlier, here?

Metrion wrote:Downie is plenty interesting, plus my pal here Cow was telling me about him. Surely after our hydra made a blunt accusatory post and he had replied there would be something to talk about on the subject. And there has been so + 1 crow for you to eat. Don't discount D1 stuff like this, really though. :/

AtEPrincess wrote:Invenio and Tilted has posted minimal game-related content. I'd like to see more of their posts before I make a judgment on them.

They were literally just shitting up the thread, told them to stop and actually participate, which if I recall I did that :V

This is not what I'm getting at. You did tell them to stop and participate, but you went on to shitpost yourself.

Didn't state anything, I'm saying that his attitude comes of as scum since he seemed to not care about anything, but never said that he was scum.

You did say his attitude was scummy, yes? My problem with this is that, instead of calling him out for it and making him accept responsibility, you ask him to change it yourself, instead of allowing him change it naturally.

I explain myself here better about how I feel like Downie is probably a Townie who's attitude will make him look scum.

What makes you think he's a townie with a scummy attitude instead of scum with a scummy attitude?

Rushed post; I must go. If you have any questions, ask and I'll clarify when I can.

AtEPrincess wrote:I am quite unsettled about the townreads on Gobln and Swordsworth, mostly because I cannot recall any of what they have said at all. However, I feel as if it's more likely that Downie and/or Dominate is/are attaching themselves towards Swordsworth and Gobln, as opposed to having both be scum.

The posts I was referring to, TrueGent, were the ones Metrion quoted here, in the last spoiler. I admit that I hadn't looked at them that way before, and more recently I realised my impression of you two have been rather skewed. (In response to your first quote, I would like to clarify: did you not have anything to say about our interactions with Metrion?) I am still wary of Parker and Munchlax, however. More to this later.

In regards to Dominate being scum or a scummy newcomer, I couldn't say for certain off of one post. But, his later post is very interesting. As stated before, the townreads on Swordsworth and Gobln puzzle me, and I need to look back and see if I had missed something important. I also feel as if his scumread on Exacerbated was rather teetering to OMGUS. His reasoning was similar to what Rhazh mentioned earlier as well. These two things are the only things that caught me; his tone is rather townie. I will be back with a more informed read later.

RVS has already touched on what I felt were wrong about Downie's response to CJ. I did feel however that many people seemed to jump to Downie's defense on D1 — when I have the time I will try to see if this is true or if I am misremembering. But if it is, then it's less likely that Downie/Forgot3n will be mafia. At the moment, I am leaning NK.

Having that said, RVS and I will be collaborating on a post to answer CJ's questions, but it'll have to be tomorrow.

RVSLord wrote:PROTECT US FOR A FREE WIN~

RVSLord wrote:To want to kickstart discussion in a productie direction isn't necessarily scummy in itself.

RVSLord wrote:Oh, there are too many examples to count. Consider someone who redirects attention from someone else at a critical point in the game to talk about someone who they accuse of being ignored, or someone who fills their ISO with nothing but empty promises of discussion but no true content of the sort. Of course iEsdeath's can't be indicative at this stage of the game; where are you trying to go with this?

RVSLord wrote:Stop that. Didn't your mother ever tell you it's rude to pry?

RVSLord wrote:

RhazhBash wrote:Page 3 and Alzouve is already scumreading itself. GG

iEsdeath's post asking for meaningful discussion to start reminds me of what Cakez did at the beginning of D1 in 8B. He ended up being the SK.

Question: Have you been reading the game?

If so, why are you trying to meta someone over a single instance of someone else doing so in a completely different game?

RVSLord wrote:

Metrion wrote:I never said you were saying starting a productive discussion is scummy,

Metrion wrote:The wording of RVS's post seems to indicate that kickstarting a "productive" discussion is possibly scummy.

Excuse me?

RVSLord wrote:

ShortcutButton wrote:haha, what fun, jokes with the horny catgirls and sarah, wow it feels like june 2014 all over again

RVS/AtE: do you guys actually think Met/Cow is scummy? Because this post just feels... abrasive. Yeah, that's the word. You say "fine" to agree with Met's point without really submitting yourself, and I see light pushes but nothing too evident.

Cow: Are you going to explain why downie was scummy in two posts?

Milte: what do YOU want to discuss?

On the contrary, I actually have a slight Townlean on Metrion at the moment, in light of recent events. Our abrasive behaviour is more out of general frustration that our points aren't being interpreted as we mean them.

RVSLord wrote:Apologies for not being able to post earlier today. I'll try to keep this brief, as I still have things taking up my time after this.

K1ll is a slight townread for me right now, as she seems to be pushing logical points that actually serve a purpose in the game, rather than using arguments that are only tangentially related to the matter at hand.
Downie is useless, but how is it alignment indicative?
If the only example of iEsdeath pushing for a "helpful D1" is a very recent scum game, then why aren't people taking into consideration that it could be a change in overall playstyle? Stop using bad meta with a minute sample size, unless you can properly explain how an action is scum indicative for that person in particular.

milte345 wrote:Because say it comes from the someone else being Cow or God who are also known to pull that kinda shit I wouldn't entirely see it as a slip, that's the why.

I don't understand this quote at all, grammatically or logically.

RVSLord wrote:Right, so my read on melanora was basically this:
Her wall is long and could appear “pro-Town” on a cursory inspection, but actually contributes nothing of value. The note about Metrion and Swords seem like early accusations when it should be obvious to her that they’re jokes, but she still frames this as a serious, legitimate accusation. The aggression served no clear purpose, as the wall was mostly "Hey Town, do this!" without actually being very productive herself.

I originally thought that DominateTheGame could have a slight connection with melanora because of Ethis post. If you note timestamps, only 11 posts were made by melanora, most of which were not alignment indicative and were the standard Day 1 joking around. Considering that in context, other similarly posting players were largely ignored by him, I took it to mean that he was intentionally trying to read melanora as Town for a reason that didn't apply to anyone else. Obviously, them being scumbuddies is no longer possible.

RVSLord wrote:It's hard to answer a question when you haven't even explained it prior to this point.

Anyway, I'll break it down for you if it's hard to understand:
1) A player posted that they read a player as Town, despite that player doing no more than other players who had posted to that point.
2) The player in question proceeded to post something that appeared scummy to me.
3) That player proceeded to flip a Neutral role.
4) Of course they can no longer be scumbuddies, but it still doesn't explain the reasoning behind the first players actions.
5) I post it in the thread because it's something likely to be useful in reading the first player, with a disclaimer that my original theory no longer holds water.

My thought process went something like that, in fewer words and less punctuation.

RVSLord wrote:I half want to launch into a rant about policy lynches, and half want to methodically rip apart downie's terrible argument.
1. He claims to have no scumreads. Yet he lists us as a scumread, without any opinion or reasoning at all? Isn't it easier to just say "I have no scumreads" over trying to appear to be contributing?
2. No reasoning here over the Gobln/Swordsworth read either. Seems to also suggest that scum can't act like a town leader.
3. So you have people giving you Neutral vibes, and you listed one pairing as the most likely to be Neutral Killing, yet you didn't even list them as a scumread?
4. You literally just listed off players who you think are good. That isn't scumreading.

I'd like to see something from downie that actually states what he thinks, because that was a large wall of fluff that ultimately accomplished nothing.